So what's wrong with picking every note?

[AlsoRan]

I have heard several complaints on this forum about jazz guitarists that pick every note as opposed to using more legato style expression. Can someone tell me what is wrong with that? Is it possibly akin to using all capital letters in an email? Does it become monotonous or fatiguing?

What sayeth yee?

[GuyB]

I don't see any fundamental opposition between picking every note and legato. They're just two ways of expression, you use whatever is appropriate to convey your feelings.

[JakeAcci]

Well, accents are important. It's an entirely subjective thing how much dynamic and tonal variety a player wants in their lines.

Slurring is quieter and gentler, picking is more aggressive generally. So you can have Pat Martino or Benson who pick more or less every note and have a more staccato, aggressive sound, or you can have Metheny or Scofield who use a lot of slurs and sound a bit more fluid and dynamic. I personally shoot for a middle ground.

Tim Miller has a very soft legato approach - it's a personal preference thing. I like em all...

I think those that swear by NOT picking every note, and advocate it to others, and just preaching their personal stylistic preference.

There is another argument, however, that if we're trying to emulate more horn like or vocal phrasing, using a lot of slurs does a better job of that than picking every note.

[ybjazz]

I don't think there's anything wrong with picking every note, or picking most every note. Some of my favorite players play like that.

I think you'll find ups and downs to both. I prefer the sound of picking every note as a lot of those old school guys do that. The truth is- when you start playing up-tempo songs, picking every note can be pretty difficult. If you can do it, all the power to you! At the end of the day, it's what you like to do. It's always great to hear from other people to learn and get different approaches- but it's really up to you and what you want to accomplish. I've noticed a lot of guys that are more modern players are really into the legato thing, but I'm just not into that kind of playing right now.

[jmstritt]

Part of it also depends on the rig of the player. If someone is playing with a floating pickup archtop into a clean amp at a low volume there we be a fairly week signal with a low amount of compression. You will HAVE to pick every note in order to hear everything, because you aren't getting any help from the electronics. This creates the, "Baseball cards in your bicycle spokes," type of sound. (Think Johnny Smith)

Conversely, if you are playing hot humbucker pickups with a cranked up tube amp, you will get a lot of natural compression from the amp and as such will have the ability to play more legato while still hearing all the notes clearly.

Personall I shoot in the middle. I am a big fan of Johnny Smith, but Johnny Smith aside, I don't really care for the buzzsaw picking sound. If you listen to a horn player, they don't articulate everynote. They usually will articulate the first note of a phrase and then articulate the next note with their next breath. That to me is a more natural sound, although almost impossible on guitar. So I use a legato approach, but pick enough to clearly hear everything. I guess I usually pick on the downbeats and then slur the upbeats. I dont know, after a while you don't really think about it you just play.

[JonnyPac]

I agree with Jake's post above. I personally like "vocal" horn-like lines and use a lot of legato technique and economy picking. I've never gotten into the machine-gun alternate picking- though it can be done tastefully.

And this seems appropriate here... (and just about everywhere else too!)

[cosmic gumbo]

I think if you pick every note, you are neglecting some of the other great fundamental sounds available from a guitar, that you get from slides, hammers, pulls, bends, etc. Use it all.

[bobby d]

Long ago when I was into John Mclaughlin, I thought picking every note was important. It's more work and a good exercise. But, Jazz should be about playing what you feel.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I think if you pick every note, you are neglecting some of the other great fundamental sounds available from a guitar, that you get from slides, hammers, pulls, bends, etc. Use it all.

Use it all!

[jster]

De todo ha de haber en el mundo.

[drobniuch]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I think if you pick every note, you are neglecting some of the other great fundamental sounds available from a guitar, that you get from slides, hammers, pulls, bends, etc. Use it all.

Use it all

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

I have heard several complaints on this forum about jazz guitarists that pick every note as opposed to using more legato style expression.

If you believe everything you read here you'll cancel yourself out of existence. Pick every note, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that if you can pull it off elegantly. Does a friggin piano player worry about whether another piano says "don't attack that note like that?" No. Why? Because it's not somebody else's hands making the sound. That's why.
I speak from experience. I don't pick ANY notes, but there's probably somebody here that would say that's wrong. I'll keep my Ebow to myself thank you.

David

[AmundLauritzen]

As long as it doesn't sound like those machine gun metal shred guitarists, I'm fine with it. It's got to breathe and there has to be soul in it.
Pat Martino picks most of his notes, and he makes it work because it swings good. Benson too. Then there are some players who sound really undynamic.

I like the sound of Tal Farlow and try to emulate that a lot. Sometimes I like to pick every other note, with exception of changing between strings.
But it depends on what guitar I play too.
I think it is important to keep the ears open, and you'll intuitively know when to pick and when not to pick. Working with the guitar and playing it in a way that brings out its distinctive character and sound is an admirable ability that I strive for.

This is a good excuse for owning a lot of different guitars

[Drumbler]

It is not wise to be dogmatic about any particular approach.

If the job calls for a hammer, use it. If it calls for a screwdriver, use that.

Better not even to waste energy thinking about it. Develop your own style.

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

If you believe everything you read here you'll cancel yourself out of existence.

David

That's a good point. However, personally I think for Jazz Guitar Technique there are a few important rules to follow, some "don'ts'" if you will:

1. Never pick any notes with your pick

2. Never slur a note via a hammer on, pull off, or slide, especially up or down

3. Never use your fingers...thumb is ok, but don't ever use it when you're playing lines or comping.

All of this applies to both downbeats and upbeats, but especially both, exceptions can't be made for whole notes.

Also, did you get my email?

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

That's a good point. However, personally I think for Jazz Guitar Technique there are a few important rules to follow, some "don'ts'" if you will:

1. Never pick any notes with your pick

2. Never slur a note via a hammer on, pull off, or slide, especially up or down

3. Never use your fingers...thumb is ok, but don't ever use it when you're playing lines or comping.

All of this applies to both downbeats and upbeats, but especially both, exceptions can't be made for whole notes.

Also, did you get my email?

That says it all!

[NSJ]

Accents are what transform the music into magic, and give it form and definition. You don't need to use ascending and descending slurs to create accents, just know how how to create rest and free strokes, either with the fingers or with a plectrum

(SIDE ISSUE: can we stop with this retarded B.S. usage of useless, non-musical terms such as "hammer ons" and "pull-offs" and actually start to use the accepted musical terminology that has been used by musicians for hundreds of years--ascending and descending slurs-- and dispense with the crap language made famous by a stoned, long-haired metal head on his "Jackson Pollack" painted strat with the lit cigarette attached to headstock, circa in '78 or so? )

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by NSJ

(SIDE ISSUE: can we stop with this retarded B.S. usage of useless, non-musical terms such as "hammer ons" and "pull-offs" and actually start to use the accepted musical terminology that has been used by musicians for hundreds of years--ascending and descending slurs-- and dispense with the crap language made famous by a stoned, long-haired metal head on his "Jackson Pollack" painted strat with the lit cigarette attached to headstock, circa in '78 or so? )

"Like, man, I'm just mindin my own bizniss. Tryin to chill. What's your problem man?" Verbatim quote from a student at a Big school in Boston.

David

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

NSJ just harshed my mellow.

[bobby d]

Originally Posted by NSJ

Accents are what transform the music into magic, and give it form and definition. You don't need to use ascending and descending slurs to create accents, just know how how to create rest and free strokes, either with the fingers or with a plectrum

I'll have to get my music dictionary out

[coolvinny]

Can't one play 'legato' on a pick stroke simply by adjusting the accenting?

[Drumbler]

Sometimes I get really hammered. I know I'm hammered when I start to slur.

Then I find it best to pull-off and take a nap until I sober up.

When I wake up I take a nip to clear my head. Hair of the dog.

Hic...

[pingu]

and dispense with the crap language made famous by a stoned, long-haired metal
head on his "Jackson Pollack" painted strat with the lit cigarette attached to
headstock, circa in '78 or so? )[

Do you refer to Buddy Guy ?

[jster]

What about grace notes? If you are going to pick every note, aren't you eliminating a lot of grace notes?

[Larry Feldman]

I have always been amazed by what George Benson can do, and he largely picks every note with less slurs. Some of the stuff on Youtube I have seen of him goofing around has been amazing, and his older stuff was amazing. On the other hand, I like the guys who slur, and have made that their sound. Just do what you do and just make it your own.

[Bosko]

Nothing wrong with it, it but why limit yourself when you play an instrument that will let you slide, slur, hammer on/off, play double stops, bends etc. I think if you always try to enunciate every note, it can sound a little sterile, repetitious, boring, and mechanical.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Bosko

Nothing wrong with it, it but why limit yourself when you play an instrument that will let you slide, slur, hammer on/off, play double stops, bends etc. I think if you always try to enunciate every note, it can sound a little sterile, repetitious, boring, and mechanical.

Ouch!
(4:30 Freddie's on...)

YouTube Video

David

[Bosko]

I like Freddie in small doses, especially in big bands.

[robby27]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

Use it all!

Agreed!

[fumblefingers]

Originally Posted by Bosko

Nothing wrong with it, it but why limit yourself when you play an instrument that will let you slide, slur, hammer on/off, play double stops, bends etc. I think if you always try to enunciate every note, it can sound a little sterile, repetitious, boring, and mechanical.

who does only that?