The Bb7 and Ebm6 in rhythm changes

[AmundLauritzen]

My Rhythm Changes chops are starting to get somewhat decent, but this particular change throws me off: Bb6, Bb7, Eb6, Ebm6. I know where these chords come from: Bb7 from E flat(Bb mixo), Eb6 from E flat(Ionian), and Ebm6 from Eb melodic minor(I just move my G to Gb in Eb major).
I can run these scales and make melodies from them, but my lines at these changes have this academic feel to them. They are in the changes but they are not IN the changes. They don't have that snap to them.
I'm looking for some ideas on what to play on these changes in order to outline them in a way that sounds like real 50's bebop.

I appreciate if anyone have good approaches, licks, or anything else to help me develop vocabulary on this part of the tune.
I can improvise on the rest of the tune pretty good, but I need some really strong lines for this particular part.

[JakeAcci]

Have you done much transcription of the players you like soloing over those changes?

Also, rhythm changes isn't always played that way. Rather than Eb6 to Ebm6, sometimes it's:

Ebmaj7 Ab7

Ebmaj7 Ebm7

Eb(6, maj7, whatever) Edim7

[AmundLauritzen]

I've learned some lines from Mark Elf's site. I've also tried to cop some of Bud Powells lines, but they don't lend themselves very well to be played on the guitar. I usually find those phrases span many octaves, so they are hard to translate to different positions in order to access them at any place from the neck. In my opinion, a lick/phrase/fragment that can be accessed anywhere on the guitar is easier to assimilate into my vocabulary and more versatile.
So I'm skimming a lot through different solos to try to find phrases that would work well on the guitar.

I'm aware of the different subs. In that context, wouldn't Ab7 pretty much function the same way as Ebm6 since they are both from melodic minor?
I assume that Ab7 would be treated as lydian dominant.

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by AmundLauritzen

I've learned some lines from Mark Elf's site. I've also tried to cop some of Bud Powells lines, but they don't lend themselves very well to be played on the guitar. I usually find those phrases span many octaves, so they are hard to translate to different positions in order to access them at any place from the neck. In my opinion, a lick/phrase/fragment that can be accessed anywhere on the guitar is easier to assimilate into my vocabulary and more versatile.
So I'm skimming a lot through different solos to try to find phrases that would work well on the guitar.

I'm aware of the different subs. In that context, wouldn't Ab7 pretty much function the same way as Ebm6 since they are both from melodic minor?
I assume that Ab7 would be treated as lydian dominant.

Well, the way I see it, the more personal transcription you do to answer this question, the better off you'll be. Any response the members of the forum can give you won't be nearly as helpful as just analyzing the lines of the people you like listening to. If the Bud Powell lines are too crazy, take smaller parts of them...I'm sure they don't span several octaves within the same measure, do they? (I haven't personally worked with any Bud Powell solos.)

I mean, Charlie Parker is really where it's at, but there are so many great rhythm changes recordings out there it's easy to choose one and then the work is just picking out what the soloist is doing over this part of the tune, analyzing it, trying to assimilate it into your vocabulary.

Also, I really believe that if you try to think of chord scales over rhythm changes you're going to get left in the dust very quickly. The chords are changing so quickly, and the A sections are very bluntly just in the key of Bb. In the analysis I've done of people's playing over RC...a lot of Charlie Parker mostly, but some others, they are targeting guide tones in the progression with arpeggios, scalar movement, and chromaticism. There also is a lot of simple diatonic (to the key) playing and blues motifs. There just isn't enough time to think of a 7 note scale for every two beats.

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by AmundLauritzen

I've learned some lines from Mark Elf's site. I've also tried to cop some of Bud Powells lines, but they don't lend themselves very well to be played on the guitar. I usually find those phrases span many octaves, so they are hard to translate to different positions in order to access them at any place from the neck. In my opinion, a lick/phrase/fragment that can be accessed anywhere on the guitar is easier to assimilate into my vocabulary and more versatile.
So I'm skimming a lot through different solos to try to find phrases that would work well on the guitar.

I'm aware of the different subs. In that context, wouldn't Ab7 pretty much function the same way as Ebm6 since they are both from melodic minor?
I assume that Ab7 would be treated as lydian dominant.

I would say forget all that "use this scale over that chord type" thinking, at least at first. After you're familiar enough with the changes (which doesn't take long), you can pretty much just play over Bb (try some blues patterns at the 6th fret) and let your ear guide you to the "correct" notes. That's what I do, at least.

You might want to take a look at the Aebersold book on Rhythm Changes. It's one of the few Aebersolds that I really like and I found it quite helpful when I started out on this progression.

Also, transcribe Miles Davis' solo from Oleo. That solo offers a lot to learn, and it's easily playable on the guitar with just a few position changes. Miles Davis - Oleo - YouTube

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

Also, rhythm changes isn't always played that way. Rather than Eb6 to Ebm6, sometimes it's:

Ebmaj7 Ab7

I was going to suggest that point. Eb-6 is a rootless Ab7.

[Hurricane Ramon]

Yep if you look at it long enough and you see it an say Oh wow that's it !

Analyze it front to back and it comes clear in time and that's what a muician's life is all about - - - Timing - - -

HR

[jasonc]

I think of the first four measures as alternating bars of I and V. I've always thought of the IV6 to ivmin6 as ii-V7. Eb6 is the same as c min7 Eb min6 is F11. But I agree that thinking about scales for every change is a bit cumbersome.