New Truefire Course: Frank Vignola's Modern Method for guitar

[nomelite]

Truefire has just release a quite comprehensive method : Frank Vignola's Modern Method for Guitar. This is big!!! 574 minutes of videos and more than 400 pages ebook. Plus the guarantee of frank's excellent educator skills.Enjoy!

Modern Method - Guitar Lessons - Frank Vignola

[Sandor]

I wish Frank would release some videos aimed at adults. He speaks as if he assumes the average person who sees his videos is 8 years old.

[fumblefingers]

i don't think that's exactly fair sandor, but i know what you mean. it's a style thing. he seems to be a really nice person, frankly (or is that Frankly?).

anyway, the substance of what he is talking about easily outstrips the knowledge level of many posters found here, and i have no doubt that most all of those posters are well beyond 8 years of age.

in other words, don't overestimate the average jazz guitar student's musical/instrumental sophistication, regardless of age.

[Richb]

What I find amusing, is that Vignola is just about as far away from "modern" as you can get in jazz.
His style is now so outdated, it is truly amazing to me that somebody would willingly try to sound like their great grand parents' music. He's still relatively young, yet you would swear he has never heard any music made beyond 1930.
Weird - to me.

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by Richb

What I find amusing, is that Vignola is just about as far away from "modern" as you can get in jazz.
His style is now so outdated, it is truly amazing to me that somebody would willingly try to sound like their great grand parents' music. He's still relatively young, yet you would swear he has never heard any music made beyond 1930.
Weird - to me.

Vignola states explicitly, early in the TrueFire course's introduction, that "...this is NOT a jazz course..." -- the stuff he teaches in this method can apply to any genre of guitar. Besides, Rich, it's the Method they're calling "modern" - and it is! Not a word about it's being "modern jazz." I don't like modern jazz either -- I'd bet that Frank Vignola plays what he plays because it's what he likes. I think he's 47, btw. Plays a lot of baseball.

Why does it amaze you that someone would like and want to play his great-grandparents' music? There are *millions* of fans of - what's their names - Mozart? Bach? Brahms? But even if you're talking "radio music" - there are myriad fans of early jazz (I'm one!), of Appalachian fiddle music (me again!), folk music, Jimmy Rogers and Doc Watson, all those people made great music. I don't see anything surprising about someone's wanting to listen to it or play it now.

Back to Vignola - have you actually listened to his CDs? Django was post-30s, too... he didn't die in 1930. I wouldn't call Vignola's own compositions "old-fashioned." Furthermore, he doesn't even call himself a jazz guitarist, per se. He's never listened exclusively to jazz - Eddie Van Halen is one of his influences, he says. He can play jazz - but I don't get these criticisms. Really, I don't understand much of anything you've written here! Ha.

Check this out - enjoy.

Salad and Donuts - Frank Vignola Quintet.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[brwnhornet59]

He seems very enthusiastic and well versed. From what I heard he does not suck. Sounds like he has been around a long time. I would not pay for his course, but I would listen to anything he had to say or play.

[Richb]

Originally Posted by Kojo27

Vignola states explicitly, early in the TrueFire course's introduction, that "...this is NOT a jazz course..." -- the stuff he teaches in this method can apply to any genre of guitar. Besides, Rich, it's the Method they're calling "modern" - and it is! Not a word about it's being "modern jazz." I don't like modern jazz either -- I'd bet that Frank Vignola plays what he plays because it's what he likes. I think he's 47, btw. Plays a lot of baseball.

Why does it amaze you that someone would like and want to play his great-grandparents' music? There are *millions* of fans of - what's their names - Mozart? Bach? Brahms? But even if you're talking "radio music" - there are myriad fans of early jazz (I'm one!), of Appalachian fiddle music (me again!), folk music, Jimmy Rogers and Doc Watson, all those people made great music. I don't see anything surprising about someone's wanting to listen to it or play it now.

Back to Vignola - have you actually listened to his CDs? Django was post-30s, too... he didn't die in 1930. I wouldn't call Vignola's own compositions "old-fashioned." Furthermore, he doesn't even call himself a jazz guitarist, per se. He's never listened exclusively to jazz - Eddie Van Halen is one of his influences, he says. He can play jazz - but I don't get these criticisms. Really, I don't understand much of anything you've written here! Ha.

Check this out - enjoy.

Salad and Donuts - Frank Vignola Quintet.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Cool. Frank has every right to do whatever he likes, and I hope he keeps on succeeding in whatever he is aiming at....sincerely wish him all the best
BUT
to me jazz is about pushing forward. Cutting edge. The idea of mainstream in a jazz-sense doesnt even compute for me. It's either the edge or it isn't jazz to me.
Pretty hardcore view, I know, but that's where it stands. And reality bears me out. All the cutting edge players today (and in every era) recruit the best players who are also cutting the edge. There is literally no room for "mainstream" geezer jazz there. It's about knowing the past but then eschewing what has been said already and finding something compelling.
This is what you hear when you listen to Ari Hoenig. Or Tigran Hamasayan. Or Joel Frahm. Or Jean Michel Pilc. Or Krantz. Or Sean Wayland.
To any of those cats the kind of music played by Frank or the millions of others like that is pure quaint outdated corny kitsch...no matter how well done.

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by Richb

Cool. Frank has every right to do whatever he likes, and I hope he keeps on succeeding in whatever he is aiming at....sincerely wish him all the best
BUT
to me jazz is about pushing forward. Cutting edge. The idea of mainstream in a jazz-sense doesnt even compute for me. It's either the edge or it isn't jazz to me.
Pretty hardcore view, I know, but that's where it stands. And reality bears me out. All the cutting edge players today (and in every era) recruit the best players who are also cutting the edge. There is literally no room for "mainstream" geezer jazz there. It's about knowing the past but then eschewing what has been said already and finding something compelling.
This is what you hear when you listen to Ari Hoenig. Or Tigran Hamasayan. Or Joel Frahm. Or Jean Michel Pilc. Or Krantz. Or Sean Wayland.
To any of those cats the kind of music played by Frank or the millions of others like that is pure quaint outdated corny kitsch...no matter how well done.

Are you saying music must be avant-garde, "cutting edge" -- practically experimental -- even to be good music? It certainly sounds this way. You wish Frank the best, then comes the caveat, BUT: and then it's back to what JAZZ has to be, in order to be "jazz."

I think you're missing the whole point. This is not a post about whether Frank Vignola is a jazz guitarist! He doesn't claim to be that. He's a guitar player, and he plays some stuff that 99.99% of the world population and every major dictionary would call "jazz." And he's damn good at it -- but he plays other stuff, too! He likes bluegrass. He likes rock. Blues. Latin music. Music is not just jazz - it's so, so, so much more.

[cmajor9]

Originally Posted by Richb

BUT to me jazz is about pushing forward. Cutting edge. The idea of mainstream in a jazz-sense doesnt even compute for me. It's either the edge or it isn't jazz to me.

To any of those cats the kind of music played by Frank or the millions of others like that is pure quaint outdated corny kitsch...no matter how well done.

So I guess that makes cats like, say, Jimmy Bruno or Martin Taylor not jazz, but corny kitsch too.

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by cmajor9

So I guess that makes cats like, say, Jimmy Bruno or Martin Taylor not jazz, but corny kitsch too.

Cmajor9 -- These posts are often slippery, and one must look at what is actually being said. In this last sentence, Rich doesn't claim that anyone is "corny kitsch." Rather, he presumes to speak for all those "cutting edge" "cats" who play the real thing. THEY consider it corny kitsch. Re-read it! I don't know if Rich called all of them on the phone before writing this, or whether he reads minds... but "To any of those cats"... the kind of music Frank Vignola plays is corny kitsch.

Oh, and there are a MILLION other people who are like Frank Vignola. I would never have believed it, but from someone who can foretell the future.... (In another thread, our poster said, "...and truth be told, [Julian Lage] won't...[have any effect on "posterity"] - I guess "posterity" means all the musicians born from now till the world ends. So Rich knows the "truth" of the entire future of music. And told it.)

Seriously, Rich -- I don't know how careful a writer you are here, or how literal, but you say some far-out, grandiose things pretty often, and I don't know how to take some of it. All acoustic archtop guitars sound like crap? How does one even respond to something like that? Have you heard them all?

I really don't intend to sound mean. Just saying...

kj

[alexd]

Hey guys,

I've been playing guitar for many-many years, and always felt a lack of control over the fingerboard and inability to play freely whatever I can sing or play on piano.
Franks' "Modern Method" is the best of all other courses I ever tried. I'm using it for last couple of months and it's being a great help on my way to fluent jamming. It really is a Method, with very clear and effective structure.
Just my opinion.

Groove on!
Alexey

PS I'm not a Jungo style's fan, I'm not a jazz enthusiast, I really can't evaluate Frank's music, but after learning from him and his courses I can say - he is a great guitar teacher.

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by alexd

Hey guys,

I've been playing guitar for many-many years, and always felt a lack of control over the fingerboard and inability to play freely whatever I can sing or play on piano.
Franks' "Modern Method" is the best of all other courses I ever tried. I'm using it for last couple of months and it's being a great help on my way to fluent jamming. It really is a Method, with very clear and effective structure.
Just my opinion.

Groove on!
Alexey

PS I'm not a Jungo style's fan, I'm not a jazz enthusiast, I really can't evaluate Frank's music, but after learning from him and his courses I can say - he is a great guitar teacher.

He is a fine teacher.

Just curious - TrueFire just released the course today -- and last week they had a proofreader's preview "bug hunt" -- how'd you start 2 months ago?

[alexd]

Kojo27: I'm taking part in TrueFire's Guitar Sherpa project as Frank's student, and the course was available for me in its draft version.

Alexey

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by alexd

Kojo27: I'm taking part in TrueFire's Guitar Sherpa project as Frank's student, and the course was available for me in its draft version.

Alexey

WOW. That must be awesome. Of all the Sherpa teachers, I'd most like to study with Frank. Bruce Arnold, too -- but Frank's a killer.

[alexd]

Kojo27: I actually looked specifically for mr. Vignola's teaching. Mr. Tommy Emmanuel has recommended him, so I didn't have any doubts

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

He seems very enthusiastic and well versed. From what I heard he does not suck. Sounds like he has been around a long time. I would not pay for his course, but I would listen to anything he had to say or play.

Hey - long time no-see! I didn't see your comment there. Below, I went on a ball-busting spree; it's been a long day.

Yeah, Frank's amazing. You don't need a course, though. Yer hard drive would explode.

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by alexd

Kojo27: I actually looked specifically for mr. Vignola's teaching. Mr. Tommy Emmanuel has recommended him, so I didn't have any doubts

You know Tommy? Cool!

Have you watched Woodsongs videos on YouTube, of Tommy and Frank and a fabulous bass player, Gary Mazzaroppi, doing their GREAT versions of the Hot Club/Django repertoire?

Here's a treat for you anyway. There are 20 of these!

YouTube Video

[alexd]

Kojo27: Thanks man! Of course I saw it - I always do my research.
As for Tommy - I just met him in Moscow a couple of times, got my guitar signed and had a small talk with him. He is a great man with a big heart.

[fumblefingers]

Originally Posted by Richb

Cool. Frank has every right to do whatever he likes, and I hope he keeps on succeeding in whatever he is aiming at....sincerely wish him all the best
BUT
to me jazz is about pushing forward. Cutting edge. The idea of mainstream in a jazz-sense doesnt even compute for me. It's either the edge or it isn't jazz to me.
Pretty hardcore view, I know, but that's where it stands. And reality bears me out. All the cutting edge players today (and in every era) recruit the best players who are also cutting the edge. There is literally no room for "mainstream" geezer jazz there. It's about knowing the past but then eschewing what has been said already and finding something compelling.
This is what you hear when you listen to Ari Hoenig. Or Tigran Hamasayan. Or Joel Frahm. Or Jean Michel Pilc. Or Krantz. Or Sean Wayland.
To any of those cats the kind of music played by Frank or the millions of others like that is pure quaint outdated corny kitsch...no matter how well done.

i understand your point of view and desire to hear progress, and moving the art forward. i can relate.

however, i think your terminology is 180 degrees backwards. you see, "modern" jazz is bebop. bebop is about 70 years old now. i think you mean "contemporary", or even "fusion".

many people insist that such styles are NOT jazz. they often don't swing for example. they are frequently influenced by rock, or hip-hop, or classical, or flamenco, or Indian music etc., etc.

so from a definition perspective this one's an easy call - straight ahead jazz is more "jazz" than non-straight ahead. its just that YOU don't like it.

i find a lot of it boring too, but i know what to call it.

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

i understand your point of view and desire to hear progress, and moving the art forward. i can relate.

however, i think your terminology is 180 degrees backwards. you see, "modern" jazz is bebop. bebop is about 70 years old now. i think you mean "contemporary", or even "fusion".

many people insist that such styles are NOT jazz. they often don't swing for example. they are frequently influenced by rock, or hip-hop, or classical, or flamenco, or Indian music etc., etc.

so from a definition perspective this one's an easy call - straight ahead jazz is more "jazz" than non-straight ahead. its just that YOU don't like it.

i find a lot of it boring too, but i know what to call it.

+1

[AmundLauritzen]

Careful with those bebop licks, or you will get caught by the jazz police.

Many of those guys wear the emperors new clothes. What's even cutting edge anymore?

I put on a Django or a Wes recording when I eat breakfast every morning. I guess that means that at 24 years old, I am an old geezer or something.

[Jzzr]

The course was so cheap with the discount and some Truefire cash I had credited for some unknown reason (got the whole thing for around $33) that I decided to take a chance on it. It is so huge, I think that it is going to take a while to truly be able to assess it completely. The main thing I notice about it however is that it seems extremely METHODICAL, which is a relief in a day and age where SO MUCH information is available--but so difficult to sort through and figure out how to organize.

For some reason it is taking an extremely long time to download all of the parts of the course; so if anyone knows how to expedite the process please let me know. I just got it last night, and was able to only download 2 out of several parts (can't remember the exact number) of the course. As far as content, I checked out the first lesson where he is showing how to play a chromatic scale up one string at a time. I thought he gave some good insight and fresh perspective into a fundamental that has been addressed many times by others.

I'll be looking forward to hearing how others are working through and using this course, and how comprehensive and useful others think that it is.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Richb

Cool. Frank has every right to do whatever he likes, and I hope he keeps on succeeding in whatever he is aiming at....sincerely wish him all the best
BUT
to me jazz is about pushing forward. Cutting edge. The idea of mainstream in a jazz-sense doesnt even compute for me. It's either the edge or it isn't jazz to me.
Pretty hardcore view, I know, but that's where it stands. And reality bears me out. All the cutting edge players today (and in every era) recruit the best players who are also cutting the edge. There is literally no room for "mainstream" geezer jazz there. It's about knowing the past but then eschewing what has been said already and finding something compelling.
This is what you hear when you listen to Ari Hoenig. Or Tigran Hamasayan. Or Joel Frahm. Or Jean Michel Pilc. Or Krantz. Or Sean Wayland.
To any of those cats the kind of music played by Frank or the millions of others like that is pure quaint outdated corny kitsch...no matter how well done.

You completely lack an understanding of why most normal people enjoy music.

I'm not talking about the miniscule percent of bitter nerds who act as the self proclaimed jazz police and spend their lives trolling forums and making condescending, delusional remarks about players whose careers far exceed anything they will ever accomplish. I am talking about regular people who enjoy listening to music.

For the majority of people, especially those who buy the records and attend the concerts, there is room for all kinds of jazz music not just the small group of artists who are on the cutting edge.

Pretty hardcore view I know but that's where it stands. Actual reality and not the warped version that you spin in your mind when typing these ridiculous proclamations about what real jazz is bears this out.

[Strickland]

Originally Posted by Richb

To any of those cats the kind of music played by Frank or the millions of others like that is pure quaint outdated corny kitsch...no matter how well done.

What a smug, elitist point of view. If you don't pay attention to history, I think you're playing corny uninformed kitsch. But hey, notice that I put "I think". Over my years of playing I've purposely avoided any musician who made such declarations against any music. That shows a close mindedness that guarantees a lack of creativity and an abundance of ego. Enjoy the gigs in mom's basement, the world will understand your true level of artistry when you're finally gone from this vile existence when no one remembers that you flipped krabby patties at the krusty krab while being annoyed by your pineapple dwelling neighbor, then the accolades will come.

[brwnhornet59]

I find that ignoring him works best. He never stop's with the disparaging remarks no matter who tries to rein him in. Some people need to feel superior in their beliefs, to give their own shortcomings an ego boost and their pettiness validity.

I like Frank. He is a good player. I like Jazz. All genre's and era's, some more than others. I like learning from the past as much as from the cutting edge of today, not that there is much of it going on, but what is out there is an inspiration. Some people just get to hung up on nonsense and miss the boat entirely. But such is life.

[Jzzr]

I find that ignoring him works best. He never stop's with the disparaging remarks no matter who tries to rein him in.

+1 brwnhornet!!

[AmundLauritzen]

I'm enjoying his troll posts.
There is this elitist on YouTube as well who likes to tell everyone who plays 50's era influenced lines to "keep up with the times", and that's to put it mildly. I don't know about Richb, but usually these people are rarely players themselves but somehow claim to have the authority to tell others what's good music and, even worse, what's not.
On YouTube, such people usually have zero videos of their own playing, so asking them to show you how it's done usually shuts them up.

I'd say lean back and enjoy the show as long as they don't make you their target. Having preferences is one thing, but claiming all mainstream jazz is kitsch or "geezer jazz" is blatantly obvious trolling.

[Jzzr]

Actually a little research reveals that he is an extremely good player.

[Jzzr]

But his biggest talent is that he knows how to make every post about himself!

[Stew23]

Originally Posted by Richb

Cool. Frank has every right to do whatever he likes, and I hope he keeps on succeeding in whatever he is aiming at....sincerely wish him all the best
BUT
to me jazz is about pushing forward. Cutting edge. The idea of mainstream in a jazz-sense doesnt even compute for me. It's either the edge or it isn't jazz to me.
Pretty hardcore view, I know, but that's where it stands. And reality bears me out. All the cutting edge players today (and in every era) recruit the best players who are also cutting the edge. There is literally no room for "mainstream" geezer jazz there. It's about knowing the past but then eschewing what has been said already and finding something compelling.
This is what you hear when you listen to Ari Hoenig. Or Tigran Hamasayan. Or Joel Frahm. Or Jean Michel Pilc. Or Krantz. Or Sean Wayland.
To any of those cats the kind of music played by Frank or the millions of others like that is pure quaint outdated corny kitsch...no matter how well done.

I've seen Frank Three times now. Once sitting in w/ Tommy Emmanuel, Once w/ Bucky P., and once w/ a gypsy jazz band. He's an amazing player. Probably can play anything. IMHO