Giant Steps, JUST DO IT!

[jmstritt]

I have put off learning Giant Steps for years. I honestly cannot say why, I just always shyed away from it. About a year ago I set off to really get the tune under my fingers, I got the Corey Christiansen book on Coltrane Changes, and the Joe Diorio Giant Steps book. What I found is that I just got more and more confused trying to find a shortcut to learn the tune.

So yesterday I had an epiphany. I tried to play the tune again and just worked on it using chord tones and connecting to the nearest chord tone of the next chord.

Ex: B D7 (A#, B, D#, F#, D, C, A F#, etc...)

Once I started working on it this way, two things happened... 1.) I memorized the changes a lot easier. and 2.) I got more instinctive about playing around the changes to where I didn't have to think as much.

From there I started working on digital patterns using 1,2,3,5 and then 5,3,2,1 for the next chord, etc.

I guess the moral of the story is JUST DO IT! I look back and I can't believe all the practice time I wasted trying to find a shortcut, when it was right under my fingers all along!

*Having said all this, I don't want to take anything away from CoreyChristiansen or Joe Diorio they are monster players and have done a lot for the field of jazz guitar education. I have nothing but the highest respect for both of them.

[JakeAcci]

Definitely! I find the first thing is just simply playing the changes as straight as possible. Damn hard to get through the tune at a fast tempo with anything other than that in mind, at least initially.

[jmstritt]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

Definitely! I find the first thing is just simply playing the changes as straight as possible. Damn hard to get through the tune at a fast tempo with anything other than that in mind, at least initially.

That really falls into what I have been working on lately, which is getting away from a really scalar way of thinking and getting back to 1-7 and 3-9 arrps.

I listened to a recording from a rehearsal not too long ago and I was kind of dissapointed with my playing. It was technically good, but kind of sounded like mush. I have kind of taken a less is more approach and gotten back to working on arpeggios and connecting chord tones. It has really helped my playing and now when I listen back I much prefer my playing as opposed to how it sounded a couple weeks ago when I was working more scalar.

I guess I just thought this would be encouraging to some folks that sometimes more complicated is not nessecairly better, but that there is no substitute for hard work.

[mr. beaumont]

I too have been playing with steps lately...

I've broken the whole thing into tension and resolution...I'm finding more and more that if I resolve hard at the points I've mapped out for myself, I can get away with murder during the rest...as long as it's played with conviction. It's been a great opportunity for me to practice "letting go."

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by jmstritt

I have put off learning Giant Steps for years. I honestly cannot say why, I just always shyed away from it.

Uhhh...because it's a really difficult tune? I'm only now getting to it, and that's because it's required material for me this semester. So, I'm really diving into the whole "Coltrane Changes" thing for the first time these past couple of weeks.

A couple of things my guitar instructor has me working on. (1) Sing the melody while playing only the roots on the guitar. (2) Sing the roots, while playing the melody. For some reason, #1 is easy; #2 is really hard for me.

I also am spending a good amount of time investigating/studying/reading/assimilating Trane changes in general. I have a song in Band in a Box that I call the Trane Trainer, where I have input the changes through the cycle of 4ths to play along with (and no peeking while it's playing!). So, for example, I'll start it off in the key of E, and it then goes E G7 C Eb7 Ab B7 E (see how I end up back where I started...that's the whole idea). Next is the key of A, so it goes A C7 F Ab7 Db E7 A. And so on...this forces me to actually think about the changes while I'm playing, instead of regurgitating a seemingly unrelated bunch of chords (which is what Giant Steps used to be for me). At some point I think I'll be able to whip out this as just another substitution for tunes I play. My ears still haven't "got it" yet, like they have with more familiar harmonic devices like iii-VI-ii-V-I, but at least my brain can take the lead for now.

Interestingly, we had an entire lecture on this in one of my classes today, so it's all coming together nicely for me right now. Now that I understand the method behind the madness, I can take a lead sheet for GS, 26-2, Coltrane's version of Body & Soul, etc. and see exactly what is going on. We also learned some interesting ideas for improv that can share if anyone's interested.

Coltrane rules!!

[jmstritt]

Originally Posted by FatJeff

We also learned some interesting ideas for improv that can share if anyone's interested.

Coltrane rules!!

Um yes I'm pretty sure we are all interested.

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by FatJeff

I can take a lead sheet for GS, 26-2, Coltrane's version of Body & Soul, etc. and see exactly what is going on. We also learned some interesting ideas for improv that can share if anyone's interested. Coltrane rules!!

I'm interested. By the way, what's 26-2? Thanks. Hey, maybe Reg might play a few choruses for us?

[JonnyPac]

I play it regularity to get good at the changes. It's not really hard theoretically - the ii V7 I's are pretty vanilla, etc. The real killer is the 250-300 BPM it is intended to be played at. I can't even play So What at 300BPM- My ideas involve lots of rhythmic figures and motifs that suffer a light-speed. Giant Steps is just a tune- Playing ultra fast is something else.

On that note. Dig in! It sounds great as a ballad or med-up tempo song, IMHO. I take it at about 200 BPM and really enjoy it.

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

By the way, what's 26-2?

Just about my favorite original Coltrane composition, that's all. :-) John Coltrane- 26-2 - YouTube. This head is taking me forever to get down, but I'm very close.

[jmstritt]

The whole Coltrane's Sound album is fantastic. If you are not familliar with 26-2 just go get the whole album!

[jster]

Haha. Everybody working on GS. I ordered the Jamey Aebersold GS book and CD a couple of days ago.

Must be some good threads on GS. Anybody done a search? Any good threads on what Trane is doing?

I have been just trying to use arpeggios on it and the faster I go, the less it sounds like jazz as I end up playing the same thing over each dom 7 and the same thing over each maj 7 and so on. But this thread is getting me fired up to put some more work into it.

Originally Posted by FatJeff

(1) Sing the melody while playing only the roots on the guitar. (2) Sing the roots, while playing the melody. For some reason, #1 is easy; #2 is really hard for me.

I'll try that tomorrow. Sounds cool.

If it is that hard, why don't you just record yourself singing/playing the roots, then play the melody while trying to sing along with the recording?

When I started, I just played the roots. You can see the symmetry very quickly that way. Really just two different sections. What does your teacher say about the bassline in the non walking parts? I ask because that is different from the roots on some of the sheet music out there.

[rlemos]

Originally Posted by jmstritt

I guess the moral of the story is JUST DO IT! I look back and I can't believe all the practice time I wasted trying to find a shortcut, when it was right under my fingers all along!

Hi Everybody, All the previous suggestions for tackling this tune are right on target. In addition, in case you are interested, I provide a different approach in my book. I have an entire chapter showing how to navigate this tune using only pentatonic scales. Based on this chapter, I also wrote an article "Shredding Giant Steps With The Basic Pentatonic Scale", Just Jazz Guitar (February 2009), No. 58, pp. 43-50. Information on my book and a copy of the JJG article are available at my website. The article is free and includes mp3 recordings of the musical examples in the article. The article shows how you can approach Giant Steps using the basic minor pentatonic scale that we all first learned. The advantages of this exercise is that you can play the entire tune using the familiar 2-notes-per-string patten and since this pentatonic pattern is so familiar, you can play at pretty close to your top speed. Please note this is an exercise and NOT a substitute for learning the tune using traditional approaches. However, it can be incorporated into what ever approach you are using and has worked for me many times, especially when the tempo got crazy. Ron

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by jmstritt

Um yes I'm pretty sure we are all interested.

The idea is to simply use descending whole steps as a possible basis for improv. To see how this works, take the first few bars of Giant Steps:

B D7 G Bb7 Eb

If you start on B, and descend by whole steps, you end up on the Eb, just as in the original changes:

B A G F Eb

So, as one example, you can simply play the B major pentatonic scale, then the A minor pentatonic scale, then the G major pentatonic scale...etc.

Why does this work?
B maj pent on B maj 7: obvious
A min pent on D7: A C D E G = 5 b7 R 9 11 of D7

You can hear Coltrane use the idea himself on the first few bars of his solo in 26-2, along with the bass; and also the bass line in the first few bars of Satellite.

[jayx123]

I tried using the arps approach but found it to difficult so i switched to the key center approach (only 3 key centers in the tune) seemed much easier then I also added the digital patterns

[Franklin52]

I'm also struggling with it at the moment .

As jayx123 mentioned you can you can also play this tune in 3 keys: B, G and Eb.

[jmstritt]

Originally Posted by FatJeff

The idea is to simply use descending whole steps as a possible basis for improv. To see how this works, take the first few bars of Giant Steps:

B D7 G Bb7 Eb

If you start on B, and descend by whole steps, you end up on the Eb, just as in the original changes:

B A G F Eb

So, as one example, you can simply play the B major pentatonic scale, then the A major pentatonic scale, then the G major pentatonic scale...etc.You can hear Coltrane use the idea himself on the first few bars of his solo in 26-2, along with the bass; and also the bass line in the first few bars of Satellite.

Cool!

[Jake Hanlon]

Steps is fun as heck once you get used to it.

My 4th year students all have to spend time on Giant Steps before I'm done with them.

[Nuff Said]

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

Giant Steps is just a tune- Playing ultra fast is something else.

I agree, the tempo is the killer, its a great tune, for the progression I also think Majors in Major thirds.

Nuff

[JakeAcci]

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B0c...ut=list&num=50

Talking about GS made me want to give it a go again. I've spent time with the tune but never done the real months of focus that it requires, just dabbled here and there. Here is a quite flawed take I did today - it's just four choruses so you don't get bored and I don't lose the form which is somewhat inevitable

Pardon that you have to download it, but it's only half a MB.

Real hard to connect things melodically at that tempo and not start to drag. Critique or comments are more than welcome but I'm aware of many of the things I need to work on...

[FatJeff]

Certainly a hell of a lot better than I can do, jake!

[cosmic gumbo]

I'm sure there's lots to gain by being halfway proficient at it, but does anyone besides a jazz musician want to hear it?

[JakeAcci]

Nope! Which is why I haven't devoted ALL that much time to it - I just see it as a great exercise and challenge.

[lkmuller]

Does it matter who wants to hear it? Not to me. I just want to be able to play it.

[cosmic gumbo]

Originally Posted by lkmuller

Does it matter who wants to hear it? Not to me. I just want to be able to play it.

I used to feel the same way about the bagpipes.

[lkmuller]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I used to feel the same way about the bagpipes.

Well, did you learn how to play them?

[jster]

Here is a question: what are some good recordings of GS other than the original?

[rlemos]

Originally Posted by jster

Here is a question: what are some good recordings of GS other than the original?

Hi,

From my article in JUST JAZZ GUITAR that I referenced earlier, here are some guitarist versions of Giant Steps on CD.

Straight Ahead:

Jimmy Bruno, Burnin (my favorite!)
Mark Elf, Mark Elf Trio
Mike Stern, Give And Take
John Scofield, Now (John Patitucci is leader)

Jazz Bossa:

Pat Metheny, Trio Live
Howard Roberts, The Magic Band II

Solo Guitar:

Joe Pass, Virtuoso 2
Jimmy Bruno, “Solo”

Jazz Fusion:

Greg Howe, A Guitar Supreme: Giant Steps In Fusion Guitar
Jennifer Batten, Above Below And Beyond
Scott Henderson, Vital Tech Tones

I would also have to add to this list the incredible YouTube video of 12-year old Andreas Varady:

Andreas varady plays Giant steps - YouTube

Regards,

Ron

[Shadow of the Sun]

Jaco Pastorius has a really unique take on Giant Steps that is mainly bass and steel drums. Worth listening to at least once.

[a22]

Originally Posted by rlemos

Hi,

From my article in JUST JAZZ GUITAR that I referenced earlier, here are some guitarist versions of Giant Steps on CD.

Straight Ahead:

Jimmy Bruno, Burnin (my favorite!)
Mark Elf, Mark Elf Trio
Mike Stern, Give And Take
John Scofield, Now (John Patitucci is leader)

Jazz Bossa:

Pat Metheny, Trio Live
Howard Roberts, The Magic Band II

Solo Guitar:

Joe Pass, Virtuoso 2
Jimmy Bruno, “Solo”

Jazz Fusion:

Greg Howe, A Guitar Supreme: Giant Steps In Fusion Guitar
Jennifer Batten, Above Below And Beyond
Scott Henderson, Vital Tech Tones

I would also have to add to this list the incredible YouTube video of 12-year old Andreas Varady:

Andreas varady plays Giant steps - YouTube

Regards,

Ron

wow, nice list, thanks! I've heard many of these versions and I can hear the changes and solo to them, but only in my head! :P

[jster]

Originally Posted by rlemos

I would also have to add to this list the incredible YouTube video of 12-year old Andreas Varady:

Andreas varady plays Giant steps - YouTube

I mean really. I'm a pretty damned secure guy. Quite comfortable with all my limitations. Quite happy to watch others far surpass me. But 12 year olds smoking through GS? Aren't there forum rules against posting stuff like this? Mods, can we do something about it?