This thread is comedy gold.
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This thread is comedy gold.
In fact the original title was "4 on 6 = 0.666666666666666666666666666666666666666 recurring" and was a tribute to his maths teacher. However Wes got tired of announcing it on stage so shortened the title.
I don't get the 6/8 aspect.
Would someone be kind enough to explain it?
To my ear, it's in 4/4.
There is actually...Quote:
There is nothing in the tune in 6/8.
It's probably how you hear it first time.... I never questioned this title because I immidiatly felt this 3s (or 6s) in melody and it seemed obvious for me...
But of course I cannot say for sure that Wes meant it (especially after I found so many people would disagree with that).
There's a pic up note - but it's coming in only at the last beat of the first bar... pure melody is
ddb/cc-/ and if you play it straight without swinging it shows 6/8 behind it that fits first three 4ths of the bar... and the last 4th is for the pickup note.
Again for me it seemed obvious...
It goes like
4 /4 /4 /4
888/888/88
dd-/bcc/-b/
By the way ... now I think that comping groove also follow this 3+3+2 rythmic pattern...
Who says 'maths'?Quote:
All that seems obvious to me is that it's 'jazz' (and not maths).
And with all respect... if we say 'it's jazz' for every problem...
we can stop any conversation here in any thread... but forum is conversation...
All I said was about what I heard... I just expressed it in conventional terms that I am used too... but the experience is purely hearing...
that's it.
I read through this thread now and I found Reg also mentioned 6/8 feel... I do not know if he meant the same thing I do... and as you know I am not looking for authroty to support... but from my long-time mebership here I know that Reg as direct as one could be in expressing his own practical experience... without any pretensions or whatever.
Again let me stress I did not analyze the stuff on purpose - it was just kind of first thing I heard - 4/4 and sort of 3/8 or 6/8 feel in it.... and now I saw the thread I tried to sum it up in more conventional way.
Perhaps it's a cryptic reference to the eponymous compound formed by 't-i-m-e' and 's-u-m-m-e-r', whose letters number four and six respectively. Then again... probably not.
It's cliché, but 'just because one could'....because such mathematical thinking fosters too narrow a conception of rhythm to be of any practical use (i.e., in improvising 'jazz') on this tune.
Edit: As Jonah says, "It's obvious" - but in the broadest sense. Because... it's 'jazz'.
I actually like Jonah's explanation, it's the only one that makes sense of what Ronnie Scott says in that video. I can imagine Ronnie might have asked Wes for the explanation beforehand.
I can also imagine Wes demonstrating the tune for the first time to his trio back in Indianapolis, he might have said 'bass line goes like this' and they say 'ok that's in 4', then he says 'melody goes like this' and they say 'hmm sounds like that bit's in 6', then Wes says 'no you play them together', so Mel Rhyne or somebody says 'sounds like 4 and 6' and Wes says 'hey cool title, I didn't have a name for it yet!'.
Pure speculation of course!
Quote:
Perhaps it's a cryptic reference to the eponymous compound formed by 't-i-m-e' and 's-u-m-m-e-r', whose letters number four and six respectively.
I also thought about just 4 notes in the intro and then 6 notes in the chorus melody... It could be this too (or not)))
It's mathematical thinking just if you imply backwards without natural feel of it (sometimes it is practical by the way... on the teaching method: practice the pattern strictly by the rules and then you begin to feel and incorporate natural musical feeling behind it),Quote:
It's cliché, but 'just because one could'....because such mathematical thinking fosters too narrow a conception of rhythm to be of any practical use (i.e., in improvising 'jazz') on this tune.
Anyway in this case I was coming from first hearing impression (some kind of fast jazz waktz bounce) and maths came up only as a way to express it conventionally...
It's not that I seprated the melody and began to try to put it into 6/8.
Broadest would be because 'it's music' ... obvious... for me)Quote:
Edit: As Jonah says, "It's obvious" - but in the broadest sense. Because... it's 'jazz'.
Ha... I just wanted to say the same speculation... that the name could come up from explanation in rehearsing processQuote:
I can also imagine Wes demonstrating the tune for the first time to his trio back in Indianapolis, he might have said 'bass line goes like this' and they say 'ok that's in 4', then he says 'melody goes like this' and they say 'hmm sounds like that bit's in 6', then Wes says 'no you play them together', so Mel Rhyne or somebody says 'sounds like 4 and 6' and Wes says 'hey cool title, I didn't have a name for it yet!'.
I hear you , and I respect what you say for its empirical value, but I think 'it's music' is actually too broad.
Because the context is 'jazz' - specifically (and perhaps 'obviously', a Wes tune over Summertime) - and what can be inferred from study of it implies what's possible in the playing of melody within that particular style of music.
Sounds plausible. Chin-chin:
https://youtu.be/8dNZg2H2Xrs
I speculate that some will read and think, "Oh, dear! I'm missing something - I'd better get that book/take that course/buy those bongos etc..." :doh: