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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatswisdom View Post
    Insert here:

    What am I supposed to be inserting?

  2. #62
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    Lmao!

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by bluewaterpig View Post
    Reg, that kind of clicked for me when you said what you did about the 6/8. I think what it is is that Wes took a typical 6/8 rhythm and just wrote it in 4, it's not "superimposed" in the music like Ronnie Scott says. The result just sounds like a typical 4/4 rhythm. I like the 4 fingers on 6 strings idea much better.

    Could be total BS, but Ronnie Scott has always been a pretty respected jazz authority. I would have to think that he discussed it with Wes before he just went ahead an said it on air, he respected Wes way too much to explain something about his song that could be incorrect.


    As for the pinky thing, my teacher Richie Hart once played an interview for us in class in the Wes Montgomery lab at Berklee, and Wes said he couldn't do any of the slurs (hammer ons and pull offs) that he wanted to do in a line with his pinky, so it ended up limiting him.
    There are many ways to say the same thing. None of Wes's tune are that complicated... simply great, I dig them all and play Wes tunes when ever I can get away with. As I said that's a typical metric modulation, used at least once a night...
    RS was a decent jazz player and when he had his Jazz club, part of his job was to entertain... as to discussing with Wes before hand... maybe, he was pretty witty and Wes was not much of an interview... Having fun doesn't doesn't always mean disrespect. Do you know where that interview was from...
    I'm a Berklee Grad... 70's , Wes didn't have the greatest technique but his feel more than made up for it.
    We should have a Wes thread with samples of his tunes played by all... I've posted a few, but would gladly post more...
    Reg

  4. #64
    Start that thread, Reg, I'll play along for sure.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action?"

    --Adam West, as Batman, 1966.

  5. #65
    Look, you're all barking up the wrong tree.
    This is how it happened:

    Wes was in the studio noodling away in between takes, when the producer said "Hey Wes? what do you call that last tune?"

    Wes, who was having trouble hearing because the drummer was tinkering with his hi-hats, thought the producer has said something like "Hey Wes? I'm off down to the store to buy some smokes, what kind shall I get you?"

    Because of his inexplicable aversion to home-grown tobacco Wes replied "foreign cigs". And thus a legend was born.

    That IS how it happened. Really.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    Hey, can we get it back to what "four on six" means? Often wondered myself..
    Yes, please can we get an answer to this?

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by bluewaterpig View Post
    Here's my source, at 0:48.

    Ronnie Scott explains it, with Wes himself sitting right behind him. Good enough?


    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O61fEhZkr2I[/YOUTUBE]

    I'm sure your jazz guitar teacher is a great player, but he's wrong.


    This is proof enough for everybody else who claims to know what it meant, and for all their guitar teachers telling them what it means too. I'm pretty sure Wes wouldn't have let him said that if it wasn't true.
    Quote from the above YouTube video : "Involves common 4/4 rhythm superimposed against a rhythm of 6/8 = title '4 on 6' ". Now we can get on with our lives ....

  8. #68
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    I just heard the other days someone said Wes made the comment once it was from looking at his hand, four fingers on six string.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  9. #69
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  10. #70
    I thought all the jazz Internet geniuses agreed, Wes couldn't read music...how would he know about superimposing a 6/8 figure on a 4/4 beat then? Huh?
    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 11-14-2017 at 10:47 PM.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action?"

    --Adam West, as Batman, 1966.

  11. #71
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    Let the mystery be.....

  12. #72
    It comes from the fact that Wes used to throw 4 pieces of meat into his guitar case every 6 days.

  13. #73
    Well, we probably should let the mystery be... but I'm a worrier. I worry at things till I get them! Now I'm not saying I'm right here - I could be trying to make the theory fit the facts - but...

    If you write out the rhythm of the tune it looks like this:

    What's the meaning of the title of 'Four On Six'?-6-4-jpg

    And sounds like this:



    Excluding rests, that's six 8ths to the bar in 4/4 time.

    I was wondering, if it's 4 on 6, why the tune's not written in 6/8. But put it the other way round (which the OP did inadvertently) and you get the above pattern.

    Anyway, that's my theory

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop View Post
    I just heard the other days someone said Wes made the comment once it was from looking at his hand, four fingers on six string.
    Three on six.
    "Each heart vibrates to that iron string."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    (who obviously played in Carl Kress tuning)

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    I thought all the jazz Internet geniuses agreed, Wes couldn't read music...how would he know about superimposing a 6/8 figure on a 4/4 beat then? Huh?
    I think you're right - it's a different kind of 'knowing'. (I don't need to count the students in my teaching groups to know that someone is missing.)
    "Each heart vibrates to that iron string."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    (who obviously played in Carl Kress tuning)

  16. #76
    8ths un melody are clearly grouped in 3+3+2s to my ear...

    I don't think Wes really cared about details, he just heard that the motive over first three 4ths in the bar goes like 6/8 (he probably did not care if it's 8ths or not... just heard the 6 (3+3) pulse ), and the 4th of the bar is a pickup for next 6...

    da-da-da/da-da-da/- duh//da-da-da/da-da-da/

    And that over 4 in the bass

  17. #77
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    This thread is comedy gold.
    Interviewer: Musically speaking, 50 years from now, how would you like to be remembered?
    Metheny: It doesn’t matter.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Karol View Post
    The original title was in fact, "4 on 6 on 21," additionally referencing the fact that Wes' L5 had 21 frets, but it was considered unwieldy and subsequently shortened.
    This seems to have gone somewhat unnoticed. Is this true? Where did you learn about the original title?

  19. #79
    In fact the original title was "4 on 6 = 0.666666666666666666666666666666666666666 recurring" and was a tribute to his maths teacher. However Wes got tired of announcing it on stage so shortened the title.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian View Post
    This thread is comedy gold.
    it's bizarro wes!


  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Three on six.

    He used four for chords so we give him a pass on the single note playing. Poor guy couldn't even afford a pick.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  22. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Karol View Post
    You're all wrong - it's so obvious! The song title refers to the exclusive use of the 4th (pinky) finger on all 6 strings. The original title was in fact, "4 on 6 on 21," additionally referencing the fact that Wes' L5 had 21 frets, but it was considered unwieldy and subsequently shortened. If you guys don't hear from me again for a while, it's because I'll be scouring the Web looking for a video to support my irrefutable claim!
    haha. and a few years later here it is, a true self-fulfilling prophesy.:

    Ulf Wakenius plays Wes Montgomery`s Four on Six

    you can't make this up.

  23. #83
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    "Each heart vibrates to that iron string."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    (who obviously played in Carl Kress tuning)

  24. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    ronnie scott. still trolling the internet in 2017

    how did he come up with that? pity we cant see wes' face.

  25. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by djg View Post
    ronnie scott. still trolling the internet in 2017

    how did he come up with that? pity we cant see wes' face.
    I’ve got this on DVD and I’ve often wondered what on earth Ronnie was going on about. I reckon he was just taking the p***, it would be totally in character.

  26. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by djg View Post
    haha. and a few years later here it is, a true self-fulfilling prophesy.:

    Ulf Wakenius plays Wes Montgomery`s Four on Six

    you can't make this up.
    That’s brilliant, I would love to plant a ‘sleeper’ story like that.

    Actually it’s a little-known fact that Wes carried a plastic thumb which he could pop over the top of his real one whenever his calluses grew too soft.

  27. #87
    I don't get the 6/8 aspect.

    Would someone be kind enough to explain it?

    To my ear, it's in 4/4.

  28. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    I don't get the 6/8 aspect.

    Would someone be kind enough to explain it?

    To my ear, it's in 4/4.
    That’s what we’re on about re. Ronnie Scott’s baffling comment. There is nothing in the tune in 6/8.

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    That’s brilliant, I would love to plant a ‘sleeper’ story like that.

    Actually it’s a little-known fact that Wes carried a plastic thumb which he could pop over the top of his real one whenever his calluses grew too soft.
    Yes - but it wasn't plastic...
    "Each heart vibrates to that iron string."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    (who obviously played in Carl Kress tuning)

  30. #90
    There is nothing in the tune in 6/8.
    There is actually...

    It's probably how you hear it first time.... I never questioned this title because I immidiatly felt this 3s (or 6s) in melody and it seemed obvious for me...

    But of course I cannot say for sure that Wes meant it (especially after I found so many people would disagree with that).

    There's a pic up note - but it's coming in only at the last beat of the first bar... pure melody is

    ddb/cc-/ and if you play it straight without swinging it shows 6/8 behind it that fits first three 4ths of the bar... and the last 4th is for the pickup note.

    Again for me it seemed obvious...

    It goes like

    4 /4 /4 /4
    888/888/88

    dd-/bcc/-b/

    By the way ... now I think that comping groove also follow this 3+3+2 rythmic pattern...

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