So...Who's switched to benson picking?

[jzucker]

Thoughts?

[mr. beaumont]

After all these picking conversations lately, I feel weird.

Not only do I not think too much about picking, I'm not married to a style either. I'm a light palm rester as a "touchstone" on electric, but I float when I play acoustic.

I feel like if there was an opportunity for me to switch to Benson picking, I missed it a long time ago...everything I do now is too "intuitive." It'd be tough to go back to square one for me...

[jzucker]

sometimes shocking the system by going back to square one can give you a jolt.

[JohnW400]

Honestly , I don't think much about my picking except that in the last 2 years I've been moving more to finger style for chord melody and chord soloing and using a pick for single lines.

For single lines how I pick is dictated by the song and if it is straight lines or a lot of cross picking.

Since I'm fairly satisfied with my picking I'll keep t what I have thanks.

Besides what good is having a right hand that can pick faster than what I can hear to play?

[mr. beaumont]

True enough, Jack!

[jzucker]

the reason I would consider switching is to allow me to articulate more clearly and accurately and to have a more centered and consistent groove from string to string. I can already play as fast as I need to but in terms of groove and feel, there's room for improvement.

I'm currently spending a little time each time on benson picking as well as bridge anchoring picking.

[M-ster]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

After all these picking conversations lately, I feel weird.

Ha! Yes, weird, that's it!

It's funny, because Benson-pickers look so effortless; but I'm a total dork when I try to do it.

[Billnc]

What exactly is Benson picking?

Has anyone else taken the Giuliani 120 RH exercises and done them with a pick? I don't think I got the idea on my own, but I forget who told me to do them.

[fep]

I switched to the Benson grip a couple of months ago.

I still catch myself regressing to my old grip from time to time (side of index finger on pick as opposed to the Benson grip with the pad of the index finger on the pick). That old grip is pretty ingrained and it takes some focus to stick to the Benson grip.

With the Benson grip my tone has already improved, at least to my ear it has.

I'm already at about 90% of my old speed and feel with the Benson method I'll be able to pass the speed I was able to pick using a standard grip.

What I really like about it is it seems to force me to have a picking motion from my wrist, with a relaxed wrist... that is what motivated me to make the change.

I can hybrid pick with the Benson grip.

I say Benson grip as I have the grip down, but as far as the entire 'method' - I'm still working on it. If you are familar with the Tuck Andreas article...

Tuck & Patti: Pick & Fingerstyle Techniques

At 1.2.2 & 1.2.3 he discusses rotation and oscillation. The rotation is what I'm using. The oscillation is difficult for me and I plan to work on it. Oscillation seems to be a dramatic change for me. Until I can do that I don't feel like I'm using the complete 'Benson Method'.

[thenoviceguitarist]

Originally Posted by fep

I can hybrid pick with the Benson grip.

Really??! That's great if you can pull it off. I found whenever I tried to hybrid pick with that grip, my right hand was in pretty horrible position to pull much of anything off.

[Kman]

I've tinkered with it. I love the tone, but it's tricky for me.

You have to be one of the fastest guys I've ever heard. I saw you in one of the Pat Martino lines you posted playing the Les Paul and you were not using the benson picking. Have you switched?

[jzucker]

Originally Posted by fep

I switched to the Benson grip a couple of months ago.

I still catch myself regressing to my old grip from time to time (side of index finger on pick as opposed to the Benson grip with the pad of the index finger on the pick). That old grip is pretty ingrained and it takes some focus to stick to the Benson grip.

Not sure what you mean by "grip". Dan Wilson uses the side of his finger for benson picking. I think it's more pick and wrist angle than the grip itself.

[jzucker]

by the way, dan wilson has a picking video in which he explains how he does it. It's a pretty informal video but has some very good information in it. Dan's an amazing player by the way. http://www.danwilsonguitar.com

[jzucker]

Originally Posted by Kman

I've tinkered with it. I love the tone, but it's tricky for me.

You have to be one of the fastest guys I've ever heard. I saw you in one of the Pat Martino lines you posted playing the Les Paul and you were not using the benson picking. Have you switched?

I have not switched but RichB keeps telling me my playing is stiff so I'm thinking of changing it.

No seriously though, if you ever hear Dan Wilson play, it's just so lyrical and relaxed and effortless. And the feel is just so amazing and this is true of most folks I've heard with the benson wrist position and pick angle. I was visiting my son at OSU a few months ago and one of Dan Wilson's students who goes to OSU stopped by and played some stuff for me. He plays benson style. He's still very much a student level player but his picking and articulation just blew mine away...

[docbop]

I've switched for most part sometimes still go back to regular picking, but can hear the note definition change so I hear the difference.

[fep]

Originally Posted by jzucker

Not sure what you mean by "grip". Dan Wilson uses the side of his finger for benson picking. I think it's more pick and wrist angle than the grip itself.

Jack, check out that article by Tuck that I posted. He explains it better than I can.

Tuck & Patti: Pick & Fingerstyle Techniques

[Kman]

Originally Posted by jzucker

I have not switched but RichB keeps telling me my playing is stiff so I'm thinking of changing it.

No seriously though, if you ever hear Dan Wilson play, it's just so lyrical and relaxed and effortless. And the feel is just so amazing and this is true of most folks I've heard with the benson wrist position and pick angle. I was visiting my son at OSU a few months ago and one of Dan Wilson's students who goes to OSU stopped by and played some stuff for me. He plays benson style. He's still very much a student level player but his picking and articulation just blew mine away...

I think your playing is pretty darn amazing, but I guess nobody is ever really satisfied with their own playing.

[jzucker]

Originally Posted by fep

Jack, check out that article by Tuck that I posted. He explains it better than I can.

Tuck & Patti: Pick & Fingerstyle Techniques

thanks. I've read that before. IMO, the actual pick grip is the least important component. If you watch Dan Wilson, George Benson and Rodney Jones play, all 3 have completely different grips and in fact, rodney circle picks. The thing they all have in common is the counter-clockwise wrist rotation which makes the bottom side of the pick contact the string first and all 3 of them use reststrokes on the downstroke. If you listen to them, all 3 get close to the same tone and all 3 have the characteristic picking flow that stems from the pick rotation and the rest strokes.

[fep]

Originally Posted by jzucker

thanks. I've read that before. IMO, the actual pick grip is the least important component. If you watch Dan Wilson, George Benson and Rodney Jones play, all 3 have completely different grips and in fact, rodney circle picks. The thing they all have in common is the counter-clockwise wrist rotation which makes the bottom side of the pick contact the string first and all 3 of them use reststrokes on the downstroke. If you listen to them, all 3 get close to the same tone and all 3 have the characteristic picking flow that stems from the pick rotation and the rest strokes.

The counterclockwise wrist rotation, is described by tuck where he describes what he calls 'oscillation'. I'm working on that.

The grip as described by Tuck has helped me though, as it has forced me out of the habit of tightening up my wrist. Try it, and see what you think... you probably already play relaxed though so the affect might not have meaning to you.

Tuck considers the grip to be the first step, and states that making just this change has helped his students.

[jzucker]

Thanks Fep. I already use a modified version of the "pad" grip. My problem is that when I play fast, I fall back to my elbow. I'm fighting some permanent nerve damage in my right arm so it may not even be possible for me to develop the dexterity in my wrist. I just know it does effect my relaxation at times.

[markerhodes]

I tried it. I don't have any problem holding the pick that way---in fact, it's real comfortable---and although I was smoother doing that than what I did before, I *now* find what's best for me is to hold the pick in the conventional way (--something that never seemed to work right for me) and tilt the pick downward. (Well, my *hand* is tilted downward.) I'm still playing at a serious angle--at least 60 degrees, maybe more. The pick doesn't move around in my hand, I don't have to squeeze it at all, it's all relaxed, and the angle's plenty good, so I'm happy.

As time goes by, I may alternate between the two but for now, this way is the most accurate I have found.

[mr. beaumont]

Now here's a funny one for you...after seeing this post, I did a little reseach, and I discovered that while I'm not really picking from the elbow, I do hold the pick like Benson.

I feel like I've been living under a rock.

[jzucker]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Now here's a funny one for you...after seeing this post, I did a little reseach, and I discovered that while I'm not really picking from the elbow, I do hold the pick like Benson.

I feel like I've been living under a rock.

Well in your profile picture you're wrist position is the opposite of benson's.

[mr. beaumont]

So his wrist is gonna come in more paralell to the strings, right?

[jzucker]

in benson picking the thumb is pointed skyward whereas in closed wrist playing the thumb points downward

[mr. beaumont]

I think I'm getting it.

I was going off an old post when I made my comment about holding the pick...my thumb is bent backward, but my wrist is "dropped" so the thumb is more parallel to the strings as opposed to pointing upwards.

So in other words, who knows what the hell I'm doing?

[JonnyPac]

I tried a bit. It was clunky... Honestly, I love the tone of the Wes style thumb... I wish that style was as fast as my standard picking!

I guess I am just more aware of how angle changes articulation and tone... I adjust to taste now. Feels ok.

I've come to the point where my picking is about as fast as I can think and hear... If I push it, my playing is like "over-driving my headlights" while driving at night. It content feels contrived and BS-tty. I realize I play kinda slow and melodic because it comes out that way via my feedback loop of creative/learned content.

This Hal Galper lesson really makes sense to me with problems like picking.

YouTube Video

[M-ster]

I read somewhere that Benson uses a Fender medium pick. What do you guys use for the Benson approach? Is a more pliable pick part of the key to making work?

[JonnyPac]

I'm 100% Dunlop Jazz III Ultex... Can't use the standard meds.

[Flyin' Brian]

I tried the Benson thing and it felt like I was picking with a shovel....just ain't gonna happen.