Placing non-diatonic tones on the off-beats . .

[Silence]

Did I phrase the title of this thread properly?

Anyways, I have been doing some transcribing (playing and notating) and have been reading out of the chromatics chapter from Jerry Bergonzi's "Developing a Jazz Language".

I had a really good "aha" moment when analyzing Lee Morgan's solo on "Locomotion". Most, if not all of his chromatic notes are placed on the off beats. I started to make some lines of my own using this concept and it has been working quite well.

So, in regards to placing chromatic tones on the off beats, is that really the concept in a nutshell? I ask, not to approximate improvisation, but to see if there are anymore sources I can pull from for these types of concepts.


I just ordered all four of Bert Ligon's books. Maybe he touches on the subject in one of his books.

[wordsmith]

I think you looking at this "in the mirror", so to speak.

I understand that chord tones are placed on the down beats.......with other notes on the ups.

So you are not wrong in your thinking, as I see it.

(But that is just how I see it. I may soon be proved to be wrong, or misguided, or innacurate............in a long-winded post about how I have no right to comment on your post ).

Nevertheless, I am commenting on it, and will defend my right to do so until my brain packs up.

[docbop]

From playing bass a long time the general concept is if your strong chord tones are on the strong beats, then anything will work on weak beats.

[Silence]

cool, thanks guys.

[ksjazzguitar]

Yeah, non-chord tones tend to be in between the beats - they can be diatonic of chromatic. Things tend to resolve the beat, especially strong beats. It doesn't always work out that way in real life, but that is the tendency and it is a good thing to work on, to have that kind of control. I haven't read Ligon's books, but it sounds like his approach is good and should cover this.

Peace,
Kevin

[markerhodes]

If you look at Charlie Parker solos, you find chord tones on beats one and three most all the time. The point of the bebop scale, when played descending, was to allow chord tones to fall on the (down) beat and non-chord tones to fall on up beats.

[Silence]

Yeah, I am sure there are tons of exceptions to this concept, but thanks for reinforcing my current understanding of this guys. It really is such an amazingly simple, yet extremely useful concept.


BTW, transcribing horn parts onto guitar is proving to be quite an exercise in fingering choices. Obviously, I am making it work, but I am still playing these lines at about half the speed of the actual recording!

[ksjazzguitar]

It also of course depends on what style you're listening to. Bebop players follow this pretty closely. A lot of post-modal stuff doesn't. Most of the chord/scale approach guys are very loose with it too.

Peace,
Kevin

[Jazzyteach65]

Originally Posted by Silence

Did I phrase the title of this thread properly?

Anyways, I have been doing some transcribing (playing and notating) and have been reading out of the chromatics chapter from Jerry Bergonzi's "Developing a Jazz Language".

I had a really good "aha" moment when analyzing Lee Morgan's solo on "Locomotion". Most, if not all of his chromatic notes are placed on the off beats. I started to make some lines of my own using this concept and it has been working quite well.

So, in regards to placing chromatic tones on the off beats, is that really the concept in a nutshell? I ask, not to approximate improvisation, but to see if there are anymore sources I can pull from for these types of concepts.


I just ordered all four of Bert Ligon's books. Maybe he touches on the subject in one of his books.

Read my posts regarding consonance and dissonance and chord tone/beat placement in the thread "Using the Jazz Minor" or "melodic minor" (it was recently created