the right thinking

frogtime · #1 01-08-2011, 08:57 PM

i am playing guitar by thinking as if playing in C.. always. in different tonalities i just change my position in fingerboard. for example if song is in F#, it is very difficult to think every single note of scale, to me it is a serious limit to speed and fluence.

also i don't know all 144 notes in the fingerboard as good as my name.

i just go by intervals, not notes.

but when i try to read and play a sheet, it's extremely difficult to cope it. and i think guitar is not a good instrument to break this habbit. because it leads you to think over positions more than notes. i can only read understand and play C transcriptions.

what can i do to change? isn't it very difficult to learn all 12 keys for all scales?

ksjazzguitar · #2 01-08-2011, 09:13 PM

First of all, I think that being able to think in terms of interval and the function of the note withing the key or chord is just as in useful as knowing the name of the note.

Second, just read. Read, read, read There is no shortcut. There are many threads on here with advice about developing reading - just check them out. Yes, it is difficult and painful. It will take a long time. But the longer you wait the worse it gets - just do it.

Peace,
Kevin

frogtime · #3 01-08-2011, 09:38 PM

one more question about thinking.

there is a sequence like

Cmaj7 - Ebmaj7 - F7

what do you think

i mainly think the minorising of C.

Ebmaj7 means Cmin9 to me. and F7 means a flatted third in C.

so

in my brain it is reflection is Cmaj7- Cmin9 - Cmin7. is it the true way?

but on the other hand over F7 there seems to be more possibilities. because of its dominant nature, alterations are possible or other different scales are possible. it's difficult to think from the C for other chords. but by this way i am more safe. i don't find myself far away.

if i look by the side of every chord i lost myself.

maybe i answered my own question here but, i want to learn some advices

max_power · #4 01-08-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogtime

one more question about thinking.

there is a sequence like

Cmaj7 - Ebmaj7 - F7

what do you think

i mainly think the minorising of C.

That's definitely the easiest way to do it, yeah. If you switch to C Dorian, you can stay with that scale for both the Ebmaj7 and for the F7.

ksjazzguitar · #5 01-08-2011, 09:58 PM

When I started out I used to think about reducing everything to one root in the thought that it would make things easier. But I've found that you loose the flavor of the chords that way. I think you'd be better served learning how to play over the chords themselves rather than their subs.

But maybe that's just me.

Peace,
Kevin

Reg · #6 01-09-2011, 09:32 AM

I'm with Kevin... know how to play what is implied and what could be implied...
The Cmaj7 to Ebmaj7 to Eb7 could be simple Imaj7 to bIIImaj7 to IV7... add V7 and you have about a million pop tunes'
Cmaj would be Ionian, Eb would be lydian, Eb7 , mixo and if you added F7... Then the blues could help tie chord scales together... or you could use #11 in each chord as a structural tie... you need more...
It's not good practice to go through some process or sub. to come up with harmonic source for chords... Cmaj7 is Cmaj7... not A-9... they may be constructed from same collection of notes... or they may not. There's more going on than than chord tones labeled. The oblivious is... C ionian and A aeolian or C lydian and A dorian... F or F#.
Best Reg

docbop · #7 01-09-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogtime

i am playing guitar by thinking as if playing in C.. always. in different tonalities i just change my position in fingerboard. for example if song is in F#, it is very difficult to think every single note of scale, to me it is a serious limit to speed and fluence.

I'd say in the long run your "thinking" just as much to relate everything back to C as it would be to just know a key changed or this chord is....

docbop · #8 01-09-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogtime

one more question about thinking.

there is a sequence like

Cmaj7 - Ebmaj7 - F7

what do you think

i mainly think the minorising of C.

Ebmaj7 means Cmin9 to me. and F7 means a flatted third in C.

so

in my brain it is reflection is Cmaj7- Cmin9 - Cmin7. is it the true way?

but on the other hand over F7 there seems to be more possibilities. because of its dominant nature, alterations are possible or other different scales are possible. it's difficult to think from the C for other chords. but by this way i am more safe. i don't find myself far away.

if i look by the side of every chord i lost myself.

maybe i answered my own question here but, i want to learn some advices

The way I learned it that's called "Parallel Minor". Your playing in C and the song is borrowing from C minor to get the Eb. Rock tunes use this all the time even if they don't know what its called. There is Modal Interchange where chords are borrowed from a mode.

merseybeat · #9 01-11-2011, 11:44 PM

100 ways to skin a cat! all of them work! Try superimposing all the arpeggios from this progression into one superscale! You will be very surprised! Then use this superscale to embelish the basic triads for each chord and you cant go wrong! Also that F7 is resolving back to CMaj so its an "anything goes" chord! Simples!

Eddie

Aristotle · #10 01-12-2011, 09:47 AM

Frogtime
You are never going to get any better at thinking in F#, by thinking only in C. Might consider taking up a bit of rudimentary scale and arpeggio practice on the piano. Maybe visualizing and working with the note names when they are in a straight line will help when you have to go back to snaking around the corners of scale patterns on guitar.

Quote:

Your playing in C and the song is borrowing from C minor

I don't like thinking of it as borrowed, because I don't plan on giving it back.

GodinFan · #11 01-12-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogtime

i am playing guitar by thinking as if playing in C.. always. in different tonalities i just change my position in fingerboard. for example if song is in F#, it is very difficult to think every single note of scale, to me it is a serious limit to speed and fluence.

also i don't know all 144 notes in the fingerboard as good as my name.

i just go by intervals, not notes.

but when i try to read and play a sheet, it's extremely difficult to cope it. and i think guitar is not a good instrument to break this habbit. because it leads you to think over positions more than notes. i can only read understand and play C transcriptions.

what can i do to change? isn't it very difficult to learn all 12 keys for all scales?

You just deal. Every other instrumentalist has to know this stuff. If you want to read, it takes work. Period, end of story.