Hearing what you play

**BillyC** · 10-10-2010, 01:48 AM

Yeah great post, C.A.JO. I can't even be specific because you really hit the nail on the head with every point you made.

**mike walker** · 10-10-2010, 03:31 AM

Play what you sing.

**musicalbodger** · 10-10-2010, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by mike walker

Play what you sing.

+1

You could also try getting together with other like (open) minded folk and try some free improvisation. No playing of any pretrained licks or prearranged harmonic structure. Just react to what the others are doing in a conversational way. Be sensitive to what others are playing and react. It's amazing how this frees you up, breaks down the learned habits and forces you to think melodically.

**franco6719** · 10-10-2010, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

+1

You could also try getting together with other like (open) minded folk and try some free improvisation. No playing of any pretrained licks or prearranged harmonic structure. Just react to what the others are doing in a conversational way. Be sensitive to what others are playing and react. It's amazing how this frees you up, breaks down the learned habits and forces you to think melodically.

+1 Impossible to find such people where I live though.

**musicalbodger** · 10-10-2010, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by franco6719

+1 Impossible to find such people where I live though.

It's difficult everywhere. I had to drive 2 hours each way to get together with a group. Not too good for climate change but it was great for a brain change.

OK so why not try on your own. Force yourself not to think harmonically and just play without thinking. Make any noise you can out of your instrument, scratches, smacks, tiny almost silent whispers, anything you can think of, but try to construct a meaningful piece of sound. Record it but don't listen to your recording for a couple of weeks. You may be surprised how musical you really are. Of course you can use notes too, but if you do, don't think harmonic structures or theory, just listen to the note you played and then try to hear (not think) what would sound right after it.

**franco6719** · 10-10-2010, 07:43 AM

You mean just like a continuous piece of "pure" sound improvisation for a few minutes and record it? Hmm....what the heck? That sounds cool to me. I'll give it a try. Maybe I'll even post it if it sounds like anything interesting. Thanks for the encourgement

**musicalbodger** · 10-10-2010, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by franco6719

You mean just like a continuous piece of "pure" sound improvisation for a few minutes and record it? Hmm....what the heck? That sounds cool to me. I'll give it a try. Maybe I'll even post it if it sounds like anything interesting. Thanks for the encourgement

Yes, but just remember that space and silence is an important part of music.

**M-ster** · 10-10-2010, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by jayx123

I love this:

Andreas is so cool

Nice clip, thanks! (Andreas listened to a lot of Benson, evidently -- and I'm not talking about the scatting.)

**FatJeff** · 10-11-2010, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by franco6719

+1 Impossible to find such people where I live though.

You might consider trying this site out then:

eJAMMING AUDiiO – The Collaborative Network for Musicians Creating Together Online in Real Time

**markf** · 10-11-2010, 10:33 AM

learn to make motives, phrases, and antecedent/consequent (question/answer, complaint/ response) phrases, etc.

this is great, and pretty easy to do.

take a little phrase, three or four notes, and play around with it, different note lengths, play backwards, forwards, inside out,

another thing I tried, is to have a poem in front of me while playing, and just use the words to create a phrase,

by which I mean playing as many notes in my phrase, as there were in line number one of the poem, then going on with the next line.'

or, as has been said many times, by great players, if it's a song, learn the words to the song,, and use them as a template for a solo.

also, It might be more interesting to you, if you try some tunes that are a long way away from what you normally play.

what you think of as stale, might immediately sound fresh.

and just slow down, I tried to play as fast as I could, then figured out I felt empty after a night of playing, slowed it down, so that my thinking was as fast as my fingers, and then the improvising started to make a lot more sense. and is a lot more fun.

I am not, charlie parker, John Mclaughin.

Why waste time, trying to be them? Not going to happen, ever.

**franco6719** · 10-12-2010, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

You might consider trying this site out then:

eJAMMING AUDiiO – The Collaborative Network for Musicians Creating Together Online in Real Time

Thanks FJ!! I will check this one out.

**jonotes** · 10-12-2010, 11:29 PM

Great topic. I often sing along when I play and I feel it does help in connecting to the guitar and gets you away from patterns. Try sing an improv with out the guitar and then go back and try to play it. I think you will find it is probably simpler and more melodic than what you would normally play. I also always play the song and try to base my improvs on the melody because the song is not just a series of changes but a song.

Baltar Hornbeek · 02-02-2011, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by BillyC

I know all my chord-scale function, basic arpeggios and substitutions and what not, but when I'm on the bandstand I can never float through the changes and feel satisfied after a chorus or two without stumbling over and repeating my ideas.

OK, so you've got the basics down, now, what do you purpose to do with them?

It's all about communication. That's where you'll find your own voice.

If you're having trouble with content, ther's many a muse to help you explore. Vanity is always a favorite and there's sex and drugs. Those three should get you rolling.

**errandboyforrhythm** · 02-02-2011, 04:42 PM

Singing along really seems to help. I love playing and singing using a "call and response" approach rather than thinking about scales, arpeggios or whatever.

**ejwhite09** · 02-02-2011, 06:33 PM

hum something until it sounds cool. play it until it sounds like you hummed it. in my opinon singing helps only because it gets you thinking in a very wax on / wax off kind of way what note you're going to play, as opposed to just playing, inevitably you will fall into patterns and mechanical playing.
but basically, you have internalize the music and internalize the intervals and then internalize how to get to those sounds on the fretboard, then you're really getting somewhere. you wanna learn all that arp and scale crap, essentiallly so you don't need it. to me scales and arps have always just been ways to learn the fretboard, or rather once i thought of them that way, my playing improved dramatically.

**Reg** · 02-03-2011, 12:36 PM

I posted this on another thread this morning and think it might help with the process of playing what you hear.
" I hate to say this... I agree with Kevin. It's strictly an exercise, if anything I would think you would be training yourself to have a bad habit.... playing with steady 8th's... what most think of guitar players... steady noodlers. I guess if your aware of what your doing... But would probable be much more efficient to have rhythmic patterns or phrases and go through the arpeggio/scale exercise.
I'm not a fan of pounding in standard voice-leading and typical chord tone, tensions or what ever you want to call, resolutions. You should be aware of classic tradition, but when one plays with those principles as control factors of your line or improve... well your going to sound like a kid going through drills. Not much to listen to, at least to my ears. What I've done over the years is to train(Trane), my ears to react the way I want them to. It may become personal... isn't that the point.
One other point I'll bring up is when one solos... there are forms and structural elements with which at some point you need to internalize... they need to be your method of expressing what you hear. Not the actual choice of notes... but how you express them, the shape and development of those pitches. These methods of expressing what you hear internally are how you play. May be simple, simply a shape, or pedal to act as a thread that holds the solo together. Depending on your skill level this can become very complicated with many levels of connection.
My point... you do need to develop this ability as a mechanical process rather than think about it. Best Reg"

**orasnon** · 02-03-2011, 06:04 PM

Now, this is a topic that's hugely important (not to say that posts dealing with complaints of other forum members or the eccentricities of Martino aren't interesting, but definitely not as important)

I'm currently acquiring a jazz lexicon through massive listening, transcribing, and imitating. When playing blues, I sing almost everything I play. You can imagine the frustration I felt when going from blues to jazz - I just didn't have enough jazz "vocabulary".....

Yet lately I naturally hear things over dominant chords (which in hindsight are sounds I picked up experimenting and transcrbing the altered, diminshed, wholetone, etc)....What a breakthrough!! Just yesterday I heard a variation of Coltrane's famous diminshed lick on "Moments Notice" and proceeded to sing while playing what I heard - and it didn't sound like Coltrane to me. Man, I was ecstatic...

So, I guess what I'm saying is: IMHO its' just as important to hear it in your mind as playing it on the fretboard...