Making the fingerboard "Light Up"

[whiskey02]

I have a rather solid foundation of chords & theory, know how to "spell" chords,(meaning I can figure out anything I don't automatically have a grip for) and can play multiple inversions of Maj7, min7 Dom7, altered tensions, min7b5, Dim7 Aug7, on different string sets, up and down the neck. But when I play single note lines, I can't seem to "make the fretboard light up" as I've read so many players say. I know the notes "mentally" but they don't "POP OUT" if I look at the board. Also, I tend very much to play horizontally a la Jim Hall (well, very much less so)! It's sometimes easier to close my eyes and "imagine" the fingerboard than to open my eyes and look at it. Can anyone offer insight in to how to make this illumination happen?

[Goofsus4]

Learning a ton of chords and inversions doesn't always translate to fluid movement along the neck with single note lines because your mind gets locked into thinking in terms of note clusters and isolated shapes. I struggle with the same thing. One thing that helped me to better visualize the notes was to practice extended arps. Basically, I just booted up a loop of a single chord, then just improvised using only the chord tones and just trying to make lines all over the neck - vertically, horizontally, octave leaps, intervallic jumps, etc. If you do this a lot, eventually you start seeing those locations "lighting up" whenever you think of that chord. I have never practice patterns per se. Instead, I improvise under restrictions (such as only using chord tones, or only using selected chord tones and specific tensions) then let the patterns manifest themselves to me over time. It takes a lot of time improvising for this to happen, but I've found that if I discover the patterns by thinking of the intervals/notes first, then when I finally learn the patterns I can use them much more effectively than when I used to learn patterns first. Mostly it's about being able to resolve to certain tones intentionally.

[musicjohnny]

Great advice Goof, there's absolutely no point in studying and learning arps, scales, and whatever else if you don't improv everyday and make an effort to utilize your tools.
I was/am having the same troubles, although I am improving in this area. And I have to say that going back and really, REALLY drilling the 4 triads in every position and every inversion has helped me a ton! They're great tools because you can nail more specific sounds as compared to whole 7 note scales.
Also, another thing I am working on right now is combining scale positions. I know all of the scale positions individually and have no trouble navigating through them at all, but the trouble is that it takes me a second too long to recognize the notes by name or degrees. This error that I have is mostly because I fell victim to learning scales early on as rocker strictly as patterns. So anyways, combining scale positions is another good tool.
And lastly, like Pierre always says here (which I took to heart forreal)
.Time on the instrument.

[Carl Craven]

learn 4 notes per string scales starting on the lowest note possible on string six will normally take you as high as A on string one above fret 12. It's a good way to start stretching your knowledge of the fingerboard. As you go through each note, spell it in your head. Do it slowly to start with so you can visualize it and hear the movement clearly. Do it regularly but make sure you cycle through the scales you need to know.

This is an Allan Holdsworth technique and I found it helped.

An alternate Howard Roberts method to use in conjunction with this one but that requires a seperate practice routine goes like this. If possible lay down a very simple rhythmic version of the changes you want to solo over at a reasonably slow enough tempo so that you can handle the changes say in quarter notes.

Play through the scales related to each chord, as the chord changes step to the nearest note in the scale of the next chord. You can move either in the direction the scale is already moving, or reverse the direction, but practice variations. As you improve, increase either the tempo, or the rhythmic speed, say moving from quarter notes to eighth notes.

These are great methods for learning neck, scales and understanding the scale changes, but there is so much more to freeing up the neck including years of practicing unfortunately for most (me included).

There are also other methods to understanding chords and associated scales, concepts of soloing and musicality that really take patience and experience. Also each persons path and destination are different.

Hope you are finding your path and destination.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I, personally, start with simple triad shapes until I've got the shapes all down.

Then I work on connecting them - note from shape 1, note from shape 2, note from shape 1 and so on. And just keep going from that.

It might not work the best, but it's an interesting enough approach for me.

[lao ce]

As far as the "light up", it didn't come to me yet, except a few times when I had the feeling that I can solve anything what I want during the night. There were no wrong notes on my guitar at those times, no far fetched ideas or orders to my hand was impossible to deploy.

It looks like i have a special way to see the notes/neck when i play. Usually I don't know/care what the name is of the notes I play. What I really follow is the degree (3rd, 7th, 9th, raised 9th etc).

It has advantages and disadvantages.
An advantage is that arriving to or use target notes is a breeze. I am thinking like this during a (2-)5-1 (usually I ignore 2) for example: "I start the line on aug 5, then down to flat 9, further down to 7th, (chord change to root) up from 2 - flat 3 - 3 and arrived on target note.
But actually I don't have a clue what notes I was playing. If someone stops me and asks me to tell him that then I have to "turn on" the other side of my brain and think for a moment to identify the actual notes.

Disadvantage:
The complication is that if I "analyze" the song in the "modern" way (am7- d7= just play Gmaj scale they say) then it is more complicated and confusing for me. For example am7-d7 it is D7 for me, otherwise I might use not too optimal landing/passing notes at the "wrong" place. If I would think G maj over D7 then I could stop on B or even on G, what is the 6th and 4th of D7 which are not the best notes to emphasize (land or start) except when you want "art".
So I don't really use that thinking, except if the song is really really fast so I just throw up notes and try to land on something meaningful. And I also use that if I want to use some coloring, thinking like "at this time i stay in g but with a tasty raised 4 emphasized".
----
I also practice with rhythmic and tonal restrictions when I work on a song. Sometimes I learn licks. I can memorize those by remembering how they walk over the degrees of the given scales. From the very first time I learn two licks really: the second one is transposed up or down by "a string" if you know what I mean. It is not that hard once I know the degree of the notes.

[cosmic gumbo]

It's as easy as this now.

[Carl Craven]

What will they think of next, perhaps guitars that play themselves.

On a more serious note, I like the triad idea, it is a great way to combine chord understanding, fingerboard knowledge and can produce some very interesting musical ideas. John Abercrombie is a great user of triads.

[bako]

There are many details and angles that go into thoroughly knowing the fingerboard.
1. knowing the flat and sharp spellings of the chromatic scale/all key signatures
2. knowing all the octaves and unisons (my 20 fret guitar has 12 E's, 11 Eb's etc.)
3. transfer things that you already can play to all possible unisons and octaves (start simple)
4. in 5 fret position play scales 12 keys (from lowest to highest note available in the key)
5. do the same with arpeggios
6. play scales and arpeggios on each single string (full range)
7. figure out every possible way to play each interval/ observe the intervallic content of all that you play

These are a few things that I torture my students with. The trick is to identify your weakest links and strengthen them.
Don't let the guitar convenience of shapes deaden your mind and ear. B and C neither sound the same and are played on different frets.
There is also a difference between knowing theory well enough to quickly figure something out and to just play it without any thought involved.
In addition to seeing the single note locations you want to see collections of related notes all at once anywhere on the fingerboard and have clear fingering strategies to play them or as you say "make the fingerboard light up".

[bass2man]

"Don't let the guitar convenience of shapes deaden your mind and ears"....that is right on...guitar is such a visual instrument that it is easy to fall into

I can move from shape to shape pretty fluently through maj/min/dom scales, but now am to the point of wanting to add more "color" tones...tough to add a #5 or b9 to your playing if you dont know where the 5 or 9 is...

So I am now going back and practicing soloing on tunes with a simple practice routine of "ok, I am going to solo starting on the 3rd of every chord", or the 5 or 7, etc...starting with scale notes but now starting to add arps and enclosures to the routine..

Slow going at first but after only a few weeks the chord tones are starting "light up" on the fretboard...

[Claudi]

Thanks to this 2 charts it's been long ago I stopped learning chord shapes. If I need to learn a new chord or scale here's the best way. Instead of the intervals you can put the note names.

[Claudi]

Sorry! I hope that now you can see them.

[Claudi]

And now the other!

[Claudi]

I think I got it!

[Claudi]

I think that now I did it better.

[musicjohnny]

es hispano eh?

[Claudi]

Yes, it is. Well in this 2 pdfs the only things to translate are TÓNICA which in musical terms means ROOT, and JUSTA which means PÈRFECT.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Originally Posted by bass2man

"Don't let the guitar convenience of shapes deaden your mind and ears"....that is right on...guitar is such a visual instrument that it is easy to fall into

Honestly, I'm not sure I agree with this.

The shape-based aspect of the guitar is an advantage- I will admit that losing your ear skills is bad, but I'd say taking advantage of the shape-based part of the guitar is no different from, say, a clarinet utilizing it's different ranges expressively or a pianist using their ability to play in seconds.

I know that Pat Martino utilizes a very shape-based approach and I am not inclined to dismiss his playing because he takes advantage of the guitar's shape-ness.

[bako]

Shadow of the Sun,

That was a quote from my post.
Shapes are a great advantage to string players that we should all take advantage of. Because they are so expedient they allow us to stop thinking about and listening to the intervals that they represent, two aspects that I feel are crucial to seeing the fingerboard clearly. I was suggesting that staying aware will expedite the fingerboard learning process.

I took just a few lessons with Pat Martino years ago. He presented a way to unify material around a common symmetrical generator (diminished and augmented stuctures) that can spin off many other harmonies. He knew all the sound and intervallic implications inherent in shapes.

[bass2man]

Bako..you said that a lot more eloquently than I could....

Shadow, I guess I was saying that it is a lot easier to get lazy on a guitar due to the shapes..it is without a doubt an advantage in some aspects (change key by moving along frets) and disadvantage ( e.g. more than one middle C requiring different shapes for scales, not like a piano or Clarinet where there is only one) but that is also the beauty of the instrument.

[Claudi]

Originally Posted by bass2man

Shadow, I guess I was saying that it is a lot easier to get lazy on a guitar due to the shapes...

That counts for chord diagrams I suppose, right?