Chameleon by Herbie Hancock?!

Blue(s) Skies · #1 07-26-2010, 08:50 AM

Hi there everyone,

this is my first entry, I hope you consider Chameleon by Hancock as Jazz.
Can you guys tell what I can play over following chords, except the chord's notes ?

BbMi7 Eb11

for everybody that doesn't know this song, it's pretty much like a funk song, the solo / improvisation part consists just of these two chords.

Do I have to take the pentatonic scale? The song's written in Bb, so which scale(s) should I take?

Thanks,

Blue(s) Skies

jeffstritt · #2 07-26-2010, 09:25 AM

Bb Dorian

jeffstritt · #3 07-26-2010, 09:26 AM

The M6 in Bb, is the 3rd of Eb.

Blue(s) Skies · #4 07-26-2010, 09:39 AM

You must be really thinking I'm a complete fool, but I'll still take the risk and ask what's the DORIAN scale?

Sorry, for that one.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #5 07-26-2010, 09:48 AM

Here's a lesson about Dorian and the other modes: Free Jazz Guitar Lesson : Guitar Modes

jeffstritt · #6 07-26-2010, 10:45 AM

Think of it as a minor sacle with a Major 6th interval instead of a Minor 6th. So for instance...

Bb Minor-
Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab

Bb Dorian-
Bb C Db Eb F G Ab

The neat thing about this is that the G in Bb Dorian is the 3rd of the Eb11. So instead of having to think of things to play over each chord, you have one scale you can use over both. Just be sure to land on a G or Db when you make the change to Eb.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #7 07-26-2010, 11:17 AM

To get into modal playing, listen to Miles. Because he's not playing a lot of notes, his modal and fusion solos are all textbook stuff.

Blue(s) Skies · #8 07-26-2010, 11:32 AM

First of all, thanks for your help. I think I figured it out by now.
I'm doing this actually by myself for the first time, my teacher always helped me.
If you guys improvise sth., how do you get a backtrack? I'm sure not everybody's Wes in this forum and is able to link chords and melody

.
I used to get them from my teacher, he's got a midi guitar and the program so called "Band in a Box".
I mean do you know websites with free mp3-tracks or do you just run your guitar into cubase or some other recording program? It's not that I'm to lazy playing the chords into the computer, I'm just trying to know every possibility and then stick to the one I like the most.

In any case thanks for your help,

Blue(s) Skies!!!

Blue(s) Skies · #9 07-26-2010, 11:36 AM

I forgot to ask:

Do you recommend reading a theory book with all the scales and more?
If so, please let me know which book.

Ty,

Blue(s) Skies!

jeffstritt · #10 07-26-2010, 01:46 PM

Well a LOT of folks on here use band in the box, and in many ways that is the best way to go.

When I work on learning tunes, I start with the melody, then the chord changes, then combining the two. Once I have that down, I work on playing along with the original recording. This is good because you can learn some licks to play on the tune, and because you get a feel for the groove of the song. Once I have that down, I keep working on the changes unaccompanied. Hopefully by that point I have nailed the chord changes enough that my solo will have some kind of harmonic direction even without a rhythmn section. Having said that, Band in the Box, will definitely be the most popular option if you are asking guys here.

As far as theory books... Right now you are probably going to want to work more on licks and phrases than scales and arpeggios. Working on licks will get you up and running quicker, and then you will have a lifetime to work on the theory. Corey Christiansen has a series of books written for Mel Bay called Essential Jazz Lines. He takes an artist and writes out a ton of licks that person used, then breaks them down and explains the theory behind them. I think that may be more useful for you. Instead of learning 50 fingerings for a Mixolydian scale, learn 50 licks to play over a dominant seventh chord.

jeffstritt · #11 07-26-2010, 01:58 PM

To follow up on my previous post, there is an Essential Jazz Lines book that covers the style of Wes Montgomery. I think that would be very usefull for you.

Also, hold your teacher accountable. If you do not feel you are getting adequate theory instruction, let him know. If the guitar teacher is cashing your checks, than he needs to work on what you want to know... just my two cents on that one.

Blue(s) Skies · #12 07-27-2010, 10:14 AM

"To follow up on my previous post, there is an Essential Jazz Lines book that covers the style of Wes Montgomery. I think that would be very usefull for you. "

Thanks for your suggestions, I think I'll look at Essential Jazz Lines Book, covering the style of Wes. Do you know who wrote it? What's the name of it?
Thanks in any case.

"Also, hold your teacher accountable. If you do not feel you are getting adequate theory instruction, let him know. If the guitar teacher is cashing your checks, than he needs to work on what you want to know... just my two cents on that one."

My teacher is doing a perfect job how he's teaching me. He explains everything to me and I can also tell him what I want to do next.
It's just as easy as that: I play in a little Jazz Combo as the one of the two guitar players. I don't always want to get on to his nerves by asking him how to improvise, like on Chameleon. Not that he's bothered that I ask him, I just want to show him that my effort is great and that I earn the place as the guitarist. Another reason being that I want to learn by myself too, I won't have a teacher for life, when I'll play in other bands I can't call him or write him an e-mail every time I don't know what to do.
I want to have a solid foundation about jazz, parts I've learned with my teacher, parts I learned by myself.-I hope everyone can understand that.

Thanks for your help so far, jeffstritt

Blue(s) Skies!

jeffstritt · #13 07-27-2010, 10:17 AM

Yeah, not trying to start a fight between you and your teacher, I just see a lot of lazy teachers out there. Good to know that you are happy and that is not the case here!

Blue(s) Skies · #14 07-27-2010, 10:23 AM

Hi, there jeffstritt,

you're right there's an awful lot of teachers that take the cash, but don't do a lot for it. I've heard of students that are bettter than their teachers, who's the teacher if the teachers learn for money from their students?

I didn't want to attack anybody,

Take care,

Blue(s) Skies

jeffstritt · #15 07-27-2010, 10:27 AM

I had a lazy teacher before. He had me sub on a gig for him onetime and ever since I got the call instead of him. Talk about karma right? Stuff like that is just a soft spot for me, because I know what it is like from the student's perspective, that's why I always try to be very respectfull of my students goals. Welcome on to the forum, I think that you will find a lot of really experienced players on here that are more than willing to help you on your way!

Blue(s) Skies · #16 07-27-2010, 10:53 AM

Thanks for your help, I hope I'll be able to help other people like you do in the future,

I'm looking forward to becoming a real jazz guitar player,
I think I'll have a great time in this forum.

Blue(s) Skies!

Blue(s) Skies · #17 08-05-2010, 06:58 AM

Hi jeffstritt,

could you tell me who wrote the book that covers Wes' Style?

jeffstritt · #18 08-05-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue(s) Skies

Hi jeffstritt,

could you tell me who wrote the book that covers Wes' Style?

The book is by Corey Christiansen. He writes aton of books for Mel Bay and they are all pretty great.

Blue(s) Skies · #19 08-09-2010, 02:40 AM

Hi jeffstritt.

I looked at the book on amazon and I was able to look at pages up to 14.
The book lookes cool but I'd like to know if the book gets more wessy

.
I've just seen normal scales- no Wes licks.

Thanks,

Blue(s) Skies

Blue(s) Skies · #20 08-09-2010, 02:41 AM

"As far as theory books... Right now you are probably going to want to work more on licks and phrases than scales and arpeggios. Working on licks will get you up and running quicker, and then you will have a lifetime to work on the theory. Corey Christiansen has a series of books written for Mel Bay called Essential Jazz Lines. He takes an artist and writes out a ton of licks that person used, then breaks them down and explains the theory behind them. I think that may be more useful for you. Instead of learning 50 fingerings for a Mixolydian scale, learn 50 licks to play over a dominant seventh chord."

I think I was blind

,
Thanks

Blue(s) Skies

jeffstritt · #21 08-09-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue(s) Skies

Hi jeffstritt.

I looked at the book on amazon and I was able to look at pages up to 14.
The book lookes cool but I'd like to know if the book gets more wessy

.
I've just seen normal scales- no Wes licks.

Thanks,

Blue(s) Skies

The first part is mostly a bird's eye view of bebop playing, he talks about bebop scales, 7-3 resolution, and the 3-b9 sound. The rest of the book is just pages of Wes licks. There are like 4 pages of short ii-V-Is, 4 pages of short minor ii-7b5, V, is, long ii-V- Is, major licks, minor licks, blues licks, etc. That to me is the best part, because it is stuff that you can incorporate right away. Put on an Aebersold or Band in the Box track with a lot of changes and go to town!