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I'm getting together with a male vocalist who sings smooth as Harry Connick, but with a hint of Nat King Cole. We hope to be able to do some gigs together. I want to support him in the old school way as heard from Andy Williams, Tony Bennett, and other male singers who have used guitarists. I am seeking suggestions from those with experience with accompanying. I am a seasoned player (i.e. old guy), but still feel kind of lost as to what the right approach would be. I would prefer to underplay as opposed to overplay, but I don't want the bottom dropping out as has happened when I have tried duo stuff with a reedman.
-Do you think I pretty much should stick to 4/4?
-Use leading bass tones between chords?
-Put in a simple fill on the vocalist's long tones?
-Make it all about the vocalist? Is there a difference backing a male jazz singer?
-Short 4-8 bar solos? Only solos at intros and endings?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Ted
P.S. Don't want to use loopers, just me and him.
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12-09-2017 11:45 AM
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I'll also be watching this thread as I also work with a very good singer (we're both 'old' guys) doing 50's & 60's oldies using backing tracks. We'd really like to drop the tracks and move to a more jazz tinged standards type show with just the two of us. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Watch Joe Pass and Ella:
Tony Bennett and Gray Sargent- they often do "Fly Me To The Moon" as a duet, but I couldn't quickly anything but bad audience cell phone videos of that. As YouTube gets filled up with crap, it gets harder to find good stuff. Gray plays quite minimalistically behind Tony on that tune.
Or Ben Monder and Gretchen Parlato (not convinced I actually like this one, their grooves never seem to quite mesh):
And then there is something quite unique as approaches go (not perhaps applicable to your project, but jeez). More Ben Monder:
Last edited by Cunamara; 12-10-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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My regular guitar gig is duo with horn. One reason it's cool is because one of my weaknesses is being too root-bound and in a duo that is much more of a strength. See how even Joe Flippin' Pass and Ben "13 Fingers" Monder both play a ton of roots in those clips? That is no accident!
Obviously, the smaller the band the more important it becomes to be conscious about your set (even if, like my duo, you don't have a planned set list). Vary keys, tempos, feels, time signatures and major & minor tunes. Build intros and outtros. Blend the old with the new; contrast the familiar with new discoveries. Be intentional about your set even as you are wide-open to the moment.
I hope this is some help.
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I often gig with vocalists.
Here are a couple of pieces of advice that I can offer:
1. When they are singing, let them shine, stay out of their way.
2. Use a chart that has the melody so if they lose their way, you can guide them back.
3. Use a looper. Record the chords while they are singing and then play over them for a solo. This does take some practice, but the practice is well worth it.
4. You play a supportive role, don't try to steal the show, singers hate that.
5. Most singers prefer pianists so do what you can to keep the gig and the relationship rolling smoothly. Singers are moody
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I played with men and women more in classical repertoire... but did occasionally jazz things duo too... but just some general things that I got from both...
Playing with men - especially with baritones to me is a bit different than with ladies... guitar has a wide range but in the middle it's more like baritone range tone... and the smooth (sometime dull) tone jazz guitar often mixes with male baritone in one...
So if you stick low range chord voicings the whole performance may sound a bit darky...
of course it depends on a song range and on vocalist's tone too.... and style of your playing...
But anyway I would think about a singer as being more in the middle of your chord range... so to say... to work more on chords where you add notes both below and above singer's part...
Roots are important in duos of course but if it's a good baritone and your playing with high range bright chords could highlight and support his voice better... especially in ballad style...
And also here I used the thing common for classical lute comping I do... it's not always approapriate in jazz but hre it seems to work... to use more resonant open chord voicings.. to make harmony sound rich and sonorous...
I am no expert though and just sharing what I am trying to do and achieve in that case.
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Singers use different keys of standards -be carefull.
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There's an old joke about singers...
Originally Posted by kris
How to fix a bulb with a help of a singer
You give him a bulb, he/she puts the bulb in the bulb socket and does not turn it just holds it firm...
then as the world always keeps turning around the singer, the bulb gets fixed in the socket.
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Originally Posted by Jonah
(Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum.
)
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Originally Posted by destinytot
(Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum.)
Hope it's not going to be qualified as singerism
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No - but "Cantator est sphaera infinita, cuius centrum est ubique, circumferentia nusquam"... Originally Posted by Jonah
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Singer, in search of his circumference Originally Posted by destinytot
No - but "Cantator est sphaera infinita, cuius centrum est ubique, circumferentia nusquam"...
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Nice. Originally Posted by Jonah
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Thanks for the advice. I was going to try to avoid a looper, but I think I might succumb to buying one. I see there are already a couple threads on loopers, and I have looked at them, but I am still confused. I prefer one that operates on the KISS method, because I am somewhat technical-impaired. So I guess the Ditto X-2? All I want to do is play back my chords for a solo chorus - not seeking to do any layering. Originally Posted by Doublea A
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Oscar Moore with Nat King Cole had it down! Now if I could play those Joe Pass/Django/Moore licks...
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I use a digitech JamMan. The older one with 2 pedals. I find that it is very easy to use. Originally Posted by Easy2grasp
It does take some practice though, especially clicking in right on the downbeat to make it sound seamless.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I use a looper a lot when practicing, but have never really dug it for traditional jazz. Takes all the "jazz" out, imo.
Be careful of your voicings. All those standard guitar grips tend to end up having the highest note somewhere in between middle C up to a G or Bb, which is pretty much exactly where a baritone singer is going to be shining. It's really easy to clash with a male baritone voice because of that. Be really careful with voicing exotic tones on top like the 9 or 11, since so many standards will have the melody note on a 3 or 5.
Also, be really careful about doubling the melody note on the top. It can be really disconcerting hearing the melody note pop out up there when you're trying to sing. A lot of bossa uses that intentionally, but it can sound really weird. Usually better to find voicings where you are comfortably harmonizing what the singer is doing.
Stick to some kind of nice rhythmic feel. If your rhythms are too intense and complicated it can be really hard for singers to feel where you are. For swing, it's nice to at least keep the 4-to-the-floor rhythm implied. Bossa obviously has its own thing. You are the drums and the bass in addition to being the chords, so don't forget that music (even jazz) has underlying grooves and rhythmic conventions that you want to try to acknowledge.
I usually do solo breaks where I re-state and embellish the melody heavily. Mostly I'm too afraid to go way out there with soloing, but I also think in a duo setting taking long solos that stray really far from the melody sounds really "empty". I try to keep the bass motion going and intersperse fills, etc., rather than just taking a bop solo so that the textures don't change too much between the singing and instrumental fills. Intros/outros are fun.
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Very helpful...Thanks! Originally Posted by ecj
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I think your OP list covers the ground pretty well, with the possible exception of the 4/4 limitation. Keep It Simple & Supportive. Let the singer handle the actual melody except when you are doing your solos, which should be complementary to the melody, or even a commentary thereon, if that makes sense. Best of luck!
Loopers are great for practice. In practice, however, they can be tricky to use without being intrusive; that is, drawing attention to themselves rather than serving the music. IMHO.
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One other suggestion: learn to pay 7-string guitar, with a low A. That, combined with a looper, will give you the ability to play fewer notes when accompanying (overtones from the bass strings will cover harmonies), and will also give you more harmonic freedom when soloing over the accompaniment you recorded. I have accompanied singers with the 7-string for many years, and in any medium to uptempo tune, a bassline with two-note voicing interspersed rhythmically is all that most singers need. On ballads, there is room for more notes in the accompaniment. I like to also have a trio with or without a singer, and putting percussion into the loop helps to glue everything together, if the percussionist knows to keep a nice solid thing going in the first chorus, then the time is easier to hear for everyone, and the percussionist is also free to be more creative in subsequent choruses. I do this by using a Zoom A3 acoustic processor, which also has a mic input, which I use for the percussion, running it into the looper so both guitar and rhythm are recorded. This works well with a guitar-horn-percussion trio, as well as with a vocalist.
In a duo format, a looper can also be used to lay down a "percussion" track by using muted strings or tapping on the guitar or pickups. 4 or 8 bars of that will give you a nice rhythm "bed" to play over. This is all in service of extending your creativity, as far as I'm concerned.
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Interesting thread and lots of good advice. I regularly play with male and female singers here in Ottawa. i do it without a looper not because i don't like loopers but I just didn't even think of that possiblity when starting. Now, i like the challenge of trying to execute without a looper...and it is challenging. i think giging without the looper challenges you to develop your skills but it could be painful for you (and possibly your audience) as you progress. Still, the rewards are great when they arrive.
Some suggestions.
1. Take advantage of freer, rubato playing for intros (you can shine there) but be sure to lay down clear time in the bar before the singer comes in. You may feel the time well before that but with some singers you need to be blazingly obvious. Same holds for harmonic interpretation. Use intros to go places surprising but be sure to bring back to more vanilla sounds a bar or two before the singer is to come in. Too many times I felt I set up a singer with an interesting intro but to see them miss the cue and I have to cycle back again to set it up in Vanilla termsn (I, VI, II, V). Sigh.
2. Work on your two feel and "four on the floor" Freddie Green approaches and oscillate them as a band would (e.g. 2 feel in the A sections and four on the floor in the bridge). If you play an archtop roll that volume down to get that nice airy rhythm sound.
3. There are many tunes with opening verses that are pleasing and novel (Autumn Leaves is an example). Incorporate them if you can and you will stand out from other duos.
4. Soloing without a looper leaves you pretty naked on the bandstand but it is helpful to the audience and yourself if you don't completely abandon reference to melody and root movement. If you stray to far the audience may be lost and feel they are lstening to a guitarist play random stuff up there. As players we hear a lot of harmonic moevement in our heads that others don't so keep melody in mind. Also, it is helpful for singers because they want to know when to come back in and if you are too abstract they will miss cues.
5. For soloing, chord solos are your friend but you don't need to be too dense witht he chordal stuff.
6. Listen to Joe Pass playing solo guitar without a band. His playing as a treasure trove of ideas.
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Here I play with an acoustic guitar "The Touch of your Lips".
Its not swing though and I probably play a lot of inversions.
The touch of your lips - YouTube
Here a play a slow swing with guitarsolo:
http://www.solveigsings.com/wp-conte...too-easily.mp3
One thing I try to keep in mind is that you can always open up the song. You don't have to be locked in walking bas with chords ones you start to walk in 4th, you can always go back to half time.
Succces,
HAns
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