Finger style jazz

[guitaroscar]

I play a hybrid fingerstyle using my pick for the single lines. I would love to be able to abandon the pick altogether, but for the tone.

When I play chords, no worries, but when I pick a single note line I get this ptt ptt sound. I have tried using nail only, fat of the fingers only, a combination of both but without success.

Someone suggested that if I persist I will get finger callouses on my right hand and that this will help. I did play double bass for a whole and this was the case with that instrument. But the DB is a very different animal than the delicate guitar.


Can anyone offer any suggestions as to how I can develop a clean right hand single note technique, please?

ps, I play an archtop with Dr Tomastik Swing Light flatwound strings.

[TH]

Nail care is an art and a science to a classical player. Nail length also has an effect, I need shorter for steel, longer for nylon.
The angle of your attack is important too. Classical technique keeps the plane of the hand parallel to the top.
Articulate from first knuckle? One kind of sound. Finger moves as a whole, a different sound.
Where you pick, leading edge, middle or trailing edge of the fingernail will effect your sound and your technique.
Filing the nail itself is a very personal thing and it really effects your sound.
I cut with coarse grade nail file, shape with medium and polish with fine. Not too fine or I don't feel the acoustic "edge"; but that's my preference. Of course.

Lots of experimentation and practice. You'll find your own sound. Good luck
David

[rlrhett]

I have never been able to play with a pick. Started as a child playing classical guitar and could never make the transition to a plectrum after several serious attempts.

I have no advice as to why you might not be getting a good tone, other than to say that there is nothing inherent about playing with your fingers that should result in a muffled tone or soft attack. I keep my finger nails relatively short and I groom them constantly as a nervous habit now. I'm glad my office has a door. I think people would find it odd to see me reading correspondence on my computer or talking on the phone while filing away at my fingernails. Emery board and nail clippers in my desk drawer. A little too much like the stereotype of a 1940's secretary!

[guitaroscar]

Hey thanks, that brought a smile to my face, the picture of you filing your nails at the office computer. I used to use nail polish on my R/H fingers. It was a clear colour but dried to a semi opaque off-white. I remember I had a visit to an oncologist who was just about to give me the all clear (thank God) when he saw my fingers. The old nail varnish gave the impression of something hideous going on under the nail. The poor guy almost fainted.
It was quite funny at the time.

[rob taft]

I'm a recent convert to all finger style but I would echo what TH and RL say above. I started to learn finger style using a teacher and the traditional classical method. I have found that for me at this point switching between nylon or steel has been difficult so I have pretty much have stayed with steel strings. For about 6 months I tried all Flamenco and found that that style was even harder on my nails and once you get past the typical quasi flamenco stuff, it is a pretty hard music to master. Being 66 and learning my limitations, I went back to my first love i.e. jazz.

One reason for going back to steel flats was finding out that not only did I not need a longish nail to get a good tone, I also didn't need to be as fastidious with them as I do with nylon strings.

I use TI flats as well but use a combination of strings e.g. I use an .11 set but use .12 e,b,g. and sometimes a .13 for the E. I went to the heavier trebles because using a nail/finger those strings were kind of thin sounding and using my thumb for the E&A provided an out of balance tone if you will. My technique which is still forming uses both the finger and the nail.

[Longways to Go]

I've always been fingerstyle (flesh of the finger) but for the past month I've been working on plectrum. It's had it's ups and downs.

The single line notes sure sound great, and I play different lines with pick than without, so there's been some growth in that regard. Chords are tougher -- especially 3 string chords with a muted 5th string -- I cannot get those to sound good with plectrum -- yet! My feeling on pick vs fingerstyle is that fingerstyle is great for chords and pick is great for single note tone and speed. Too bad I haven't figured out how to switch back and forth reliably. Maybe that will come in time . . . I do think my plectrum study has improved my playing overall and I plan to continue with it without abandoning fingerstyle as my more comfortable "home base".

My note to note tone playing fingerstyle is very uneven. Each finger sounds a bit different, and the attack can range from bright to thick. I find the variability hard to control. Earlier this spring I began some fingerstyle exercises doing alternate picking between thumb and index or middle finger. Those exercises helped my speed and smoothness quite a bit, but they also led me to ultimately try out the plectrum!

One funny thing: after a month of working on plectrum and spending very little time on fingerstyle, I did a 3 hour rehearsal yesterday playing fingerstyle. Man are my fingers sore! I didn't expect my right hand soften up so fast

[lammie200]

I have never been able to play with a pick. Started as a child playing classical guitar and could never make the transition to a plectrum after several serious attempts.

I have no advice as to why you might not be getting a good tone, other than to say that there is nothing inherent about playing with your fingers that should result in a muffled tone or soft attack. I keep my finger nails relatively short...

Ditto to all of this for me. I left out the part about grooming at work though. I don't do that. Also, I can use a pick, but I much prefer not to. I much rather that my fingers feel the strings.

I don't know if I have any suggestions that will help the OP, but it is possible to do single note up and down strokes with just your thumb, but you can also do them with a down on the thumb and an up on the index finger. You can get pretty fast and clean, but it takes practice.

[ronjazz]

For those of you playing with fingers, work on alternating downstrokes with the thumb with upstrokes from the MIDDLE finger rather than the index; the middle finger is longer and stronger, and will match the thumb in tone more closely. For those interested in hybrid approaches, I can highly recommend Gustavo Assis-Brasil's "Hybrid Picking for Guitar" along with basic classical studies by Carcassi, Aguado and Sor. My own practicing consists of three parts technique: fingers only, pick only and hybrid, with each segment being divided into three different exercises done for 5-12 minutes each, depending on available time. This kind of focused practicing, learned from my classical days, results in a strong, steady progress in speed, agility and coordination, measurable weekly, and is encouraging. I also tend to replace certain studies with others every two or three weeks to prevent boredom and to expand technical reach.

[Larry Feldman]

Hi Ronjazz, I've noticed that's how Kevin Eubanks does it too. And he can get wicked fast with his thumb and middle finger.

[morroben]

I try to practice single note stuff with both thumb/middle and thumb/index. I notice that when I'm just playing, and not thinking about it, I revert to a weird thing where I kind of lock my thumb and index fingers and move from the wrist, almost like a pick player would. So it's my wrist moving my thumb down and index up, instead of the knuckles of the fingers. Strangely, that tends to sound much more fluid than my more "correct" practicing.

[lammie200]

I try to practice single note stuff with both thumb/middle and thumb/index. I notice that when I'm just playing, and not thinking about it, I revert to a weird thing where I kind of lock my thumb and index fingers and move from the wrist, almost like a pick player would. So it's my wrist moving my thumb down and index up, instead of the knuckles of the fingers. Strangely, that tends to sound much more fluid than my more "correct" practicing.

I am sure that it isn't "correct," but that is what I do as well.

[ronjazz]

Basically, there is no "correct", but there is a real danger in not figuring out how the body works. Recent studies have shown that nearly 80% of college-level music students are playing injured, in pain. Pretty much a guarantee of a short career. The main culprit is tension, which creates heat, which damages nerves and tendons, and often leads to focal dystonia, taking away much of the fine motor skills necessary for pro-level playing. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong in "locking" your index (or middle) finger to your thumb when alternating single notes, but it should be a loose and fluid lock, not a tight and tense one.

For those pursuing finger-style for jazz or any other style, the one source for harm-free training is Christopher Berg's "Mastering Guitar Technique: Process and Essence", published by Mel Bay. This small, unassuming volume opens with 24 pages of background and information, well-written and very sensible, before Lesson 1 gives you notes to play. It takes a short while to read, and should be read once or twice a week for as long as you play the guitar. It proceeds through a variety of short exercises and pieces, all carefully explained, in a nice progressive order. In my opinion, it's the equivalent technical manual to Mick Goodrick's Advancing Guitarist, although easier to understand. While I have retired from teaching the guitar, I was at New England Conservatory for years, and if I went back to teaching, this would be required of every student no matter what level.

For those of you on steel strings, I would recommend the purchase of a crossover style (narrower neck) nylon string instrument to really learn how to approach tone production. It's not difficult to switch back to steel strings once you get your technique solid.

[Robertkoa]

Yeah you will get callouses and also can work some nails in..

I actually use pick and fingers where I am doing free strokes with M and A and even rest strokes while simultaneously strumming with pick or playing lower string figures but this is more for aggressive Rhythm Playing though it overlaps into Solo Guitar somewhat.
It mimics a Piano -somewhat.

I can also use just neo classical with no pick but tend to be more complex then ( unnecessarily so )and less Rhythmic and I am going to Solo with pick on these' Tracks' anyway.
So ALL FINGERS is not my primary way to Play - but I certainly can-

A good tip is to lightly rest the Base of your Thumb on the face of the Guitar for Rest Strokes with I and M Classical or Flamenco style - EXCEPT - try playing nearer to the fingerboard ( easier on fingertips ) and
LIGHTLY resting the base of the thumb enables uniform angle and depth of I and M as well as making the Contact Area of FINGERTIPS much smaller...improving the Tone and articulation.

******Remember this type of resting is very light and wayyyy up at the big ball of thumb so you can still use thumb on lower 2 strings while playing lines with I and M fingers or Bach Counterpoint etc.

You will have the extreme left sides of Fingers I and M contacting the string like Classical Players without the treacherous floating hand...lol.

IF you look at close ups over the shoulder Photos of Classical Players doing rest strokes with I and M you will SEE the small contact area of left side of fingers I and M.

The wrist curve NOT the arch evens out the length of the Fingers - the problem with FLOATING the right hand when doing rest strokes with I and M is it is difficult to maintain the micro consistency required when moving ACROSS multiple strings while FLOATING.

But OP if you are not getting crisp tones - sounds lije contact area is too large- that's the common denominator of all Classical and Flamenco Players is a small contact point with I and M OR mostly nails which is again a small contact point...




The very slight Contact of the base of thumb can move down up side side etc.NOT ANCHORED . AND can even Float slightly when all strings need to ring but don't try to be Segovia or John Williams UNTIL you try it this way- unless you are very comfortable with the Giant Floating Arch ...which only really really works well for 1 out of 10,000 Players for single lines.

Most who get good with fingers I and M use nails or very slighly supported at thumb rest strokes..
Not pure floating during Single Lines.

Anyone who has seen First Year Classic Guitar students...they can arpeggiate but simple scales are pretty hard for them ...Improvising is even worse except for rare 1 in 10,000 maybe 1 in a 1000 for neighborhood playing lol.



I can do it pretty well even that way although not close to what I can do with a pick so it must not be that difficult. It does burn the tips of my fingers cuz I don't do it much or care to.- You need small contact area and calluses or nails ( nails require small contact area too - learn without them first).

[rlrhett]

I play fingerstyle only. When playing single notes I use my pointing finger and middle finger a lot. I wonder if that is why no one wants to play with me?


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[lammie200]

...I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong in "locking" your index (or middle) finger to your thumb when alternating single notes, but it should be a loose and fluid lock, not a tight and tense one...

"Lock" is probably not the best word to describe what I do, but, yes, it has to be balanced with natural motions that do not create stress. I would have the same issue with a pick, however. And, some nights when I practice I don't pair my thumb and index finger up at all - mostly just thumb and fingerpicking as a normal person would do it. Bottom line for me is that I have never felt right squeezing a thin piece of plastic to play.

[Robertkoa]

Hi Ronjazz, I've noticed that's how Kevin Eubanks does it too. And he can get wicked fast with his thumb and middle finger.

That's cool...but the only reason I bother with
All fingers or pick and fimgers is to Play more like a piano...
Where I am with the Pick playing low strings riff or Arp or strumming and plucking with M and A...

Or All Fingers I can move up to Fingers P and I..and the Thumb does the lower figures though not as cool for strumming simultaneously.

So just plucking with thumb and Finger you lose the contrapuntal ability..

I remember liking Eubanks playing though ....

I have seen a lot of Fingerstyle Players use that technique for single lines and it always seems to work and sound excellent with no change in Tone from the Fingerstyle ...