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[Did a search before posting this but didn't find anything quite on point...]
I'm experiencing pain in my left (fretting) forearm recently and I suspect it is due to practicing for several hours a day for a few days in a row. It only hurts when I rotate the arm outward (i.e., back of hand toward my body). Tendonitis? Common problem? Avoidable (just don't practice so much?)? Reversible (stop practicing for a week)?
Thanks.
J.
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03-28-2017 12:52 PM
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Read up on golfer's elbow and tennis elbow to see if those symptoms match yours. The medical names are medial epicondylitis and lateral epicondylitis, IIRC. I have been having some trouble with medial epicondylitis; the bump on the inside of my elbow is painful and tender to the touch, with some pain radiating down my forearm and mynarm feels a bit stiff. There is one particular guitar in my collecion that seems to aggravate this more than the others, and happens to be the one I was playing a lot for about 6 weeks before I noticed the pain. I have no idea why (it's a Strat with a 24 3/4" scale neck), other than perhaps it puts my arm into a slightly different position that my Tele or archtop.
This can become a chronic condition. The recommended cures are rest (stop doing the things that make it feel worse until the pain is completely gone), ice, NSAIDs. I have found some relief with arnica massage oil, but that could just be from the massage rather than the arnica. Cross-fiber massage can be helpful with tendonitis. A counter-tension strap might be helpful; I have not tried this. According to my doc (regarding a shoulder strain also on that side, a couple of months ago- so that might be contributory, too, by affecting my position) taking an NSAID like ibuprofen fairly aggressively and consistently may be more helpful in reducing inflammation-based problems rather than taking it just symptomatically (e.g., when it hurts). With ibuprofen, you can take up to 2400 mg daily (200 mg every 2 hours, 400 mg every 4 hours, 600 mg every 6 hours or 800 mg every 8 hours). Not that I remember to do this, but taking ibuprofen 200 mg every morning has seemed helpful over a few weeks.
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Just experienced this kind of pain, as a result of excessive practicing (like 30mn playing non stop 8th notes at high speed) without any muscle warm-up and not paying attention to whether I was properly handling my left arm (wrist excessively bent).
I even told myself while practicing this way that I was a fool !! facts proved this to be the case
Pain reduced significantly after a week with no practice at all, but it's not gone. My doctor recommended me to use those adhesive bandage which are impregnated with anti-inflammatory medecine, you put them in place at bed time to be kept in place for about 9 to 12 hours. I plan not to practice for another week to see how this evolves, as well as using those bandages.
If pain doesn't disappear, ultimate solution is to use these molded devices to prevent moving your wrist to. No fun.
Bottom line: "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" ... Best medecine is to pay attention to how you practice !!Last edited by mhch; 03-30-2017 at 12:33 PM.
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I would follow the doctors instruction, but be cautious about extreme measures like complete immobilization etc.. Overuse injuries are something most serious musicians face at some point, learn the lesson and take better care of your body, practice routine etc..
Also bear in mind that while recuperating, some pain or discomfort usually will be present. It will fade gradually, as long as you are careful and don't overdo things. What's most important is to exactly understand what caused this, (some mistake at technique, no breaks, trying to force something?) and not repeat it.
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Do you stretch before playing? Look on youtube.
There are people demonstrating classical guitar exercises to counteract the typical clenching of the left hand. So, if you held your left palm in front of you w/ the palm facing the ceiling, gently grab the finger tips and pull down toward the floor. The idea is to have the opposite motion to the typical, repeated one.
(When I had persistent back issues a few yrs. ago, I read an interesting book called The Wharton Back Book, by a couple of pro sports team trainers. They observed that even high level athletes, often as a result of what they're doing, can overwork certain muscle groups and end up with issues. They observed this w/ hockey players. Cyclists often end up with overdeveloped (and tight) hamstrings, that can pull their back out of alignment. Truly, in the body, "the ankle bone is connected to the leg bone, etc."
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Great thread!
I experience issues with my left wrist and stretching, massaging my arthritic fingers and a wrist wrap before and after practice helps keep my left wrist more pain free.
Add to that I found I had problems tuning with Grover "kidney" and "Tulip" heads. It seems like my wrist tendons literally sort of "snapped" with a simple tuning which usually started the ball rolling for an uncomfortable practice session. Accidentally, I found that after playing my D'Angelico reproductions with Grover rotomatics and "Imperial" buttons my practice sessions went smoother.
What helped is on all of my regular playing gits I have pulled off those buttons and installed Allparts brand "Imperial" replacement buttons. So far I've replaced the buttons on four guitars and the stress from a simple tuning has changed my practice sessions quite a bit.
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I have a very long history with this stuff, seen a lot of doctors.
Play 25 minutes max then no hands (do some other activity) for at least 5 minutes before you pick up the guitar again.
rotate types of playing - don't do just speed lines non stop or chord voicings non stop, alternate sessions. Chords vs melodies are a different type of physical strain, don't just repeat the same stuff.
Otherwise, a lot of threads on this topic where I've shared my experiences
pain threads
and I made a video on just a tiny fraction of the issues - but really that's just a small part of everything to consider
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The best advice I know to give is to be careful with over practicing! If you're suddenly inspired to practice 3 hours a day when before you were doing 20 minutes, you're likely to have problems. You have to condition yourself. I've never had any problems, but I'm been practicing since I was in junior high school. I built up conditioning. But I've seen over zealous students seriously injure their hands or arms.
Keep a record of your on instrument time and spend the rest reading music without the instrument, listening to music, analyzing Bird or Coltrane.
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yeah exactly - my worst issues came when i went from casually playing on a strat to practicing all day every day on a flat top with 12s. Didn't go gradual!
Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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Yeah. That's where I've seen serious injuries.
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I've never had any problems, and I probably had 12-hour sessions in my younger days. Could be it's because I take constant small breaks. E.g. practice something for 30 seconds, then rest the hand for 5-10 seconds. And the slightest sign of pain tells me to rest that hand until the feeling is gone. Usually doesn't require more than some minutes.
I'm thinking many don't pay attention to those small signs and keep on practicing until the pain gets too obvious. At which point too much damage is done...or the recovery period needed is longer than one wants to wait...
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Not clear on exactly where the pain is on the forearm. With the arm hanging at your side palm in (normal hanging position) is the pain on the inside or outside? Or to the front or back? Originally Posted by jasaco
How close to the elbow joint? Is it out into muscle area or closer to the end into the bone?
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
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This is the responsible approach! I think ambitious young musicians are often not good at this kind of self awareness. Originally Posted by Runepune
I've never had any problems, and I probably had 12-hour sessions in my younger days. Could be it's because I take constant small breaks. E.g. practice something for 30 seconds, then rest the hand for 5-10 seconds. And the slightest sign of pain tells me to rest that hand until the feeling is gone. Usually doesn't require more than some minutes.
I'm thinking many don't pay attention to those small signs and keep on practicing until the pain gets too obvious. At which point too much damage is done...or the recovery period needed is longer than one wants to wait...
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Doesn't hurt at all when the arm is just hanging by my side. Just hurts when I rotate it outward. No pain on the elbow joint per se, just in the muscles along the back side of the forearm (the hairy side; medical folks would call this the dorsal side) Originally Posted by R Neil
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Ah. So arm at your side, turning thumb out (palm facing forward) gets the pain, and the pain is on the outward side near the elbow ...would this be the place? Originally Posted by jasaco
And I've no clue why this insists on grabbing a second pic and posting it! Whatever ...
Stumbling fingers still need love ...Last edited by R Neil; 04-01-2017 at 01:05 AM.
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I must not be expressing myself clearly because it is the opposite of what you just wrote. There is no pain when I turn the palm forward-facing. The pain is when I turn it clockwise (as I look down at it), with palm facing outward to the left with the back of my hand facing my leg (and outer edge of pinky facing forward). And the pain is where you show it near the elbow, but equally so all along that large muscle from where your finger is in your photo, to the right where the photo ends (nearly at the wrist). Originally Posted by R Neil
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Ahh. Well, from my experience, I'd rather have what you're saying. As it runs the length of the muscle, that's just a basic muscle strain. Just don't play or stress it for a couple weeks or three, start back slowly doing a range of playing and exercises in *short* bits of a few minutes at a time, should be fine. Originally Posted by jasaco
If the problem was at the end of the muscle that's more problematic normally. Indicates a tendon or ligament issue then.
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
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The only issue I recall having with my left arm came when I was playing a lot in open position. Something about rotating my arm that way and keeping it there a while created a strain. So I stopped doing it. ;o) Well, I can play down at the nut but much prefer the range b/w the 3rd and 8th fret. That's my "default" area.
When I was a little kid (on an acoustic guitar) everything was in open position.
I've had 'tennis elbow' in my right (picking) arm a few times, though not a long time now.
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FWIW:
I have had such playing-related problems (forearm, wrist, hand, finger pain, in various combinations) on and off for a number of years, and over the past year I found that the one thing which seems to best keep them at bay is doing daily stretching exercises using a resistance band or simply some rubber tubing.
Just do multiple reps behind the head, directly over the head, in front at chest level, etc., for a few minutes a day. I've been doing this for months and during this period have had only a few bouts of minor pain from playing, even after hours-long sessions, and no repeat episodes of serious pain, swelling and the like.
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No problem, like so many others I encountered the same problem. The cure is simple, though doctors tend to mislead and recommend more costly solutions than some simple exercises are ... honi soit qui mal y pense...
Look here, Swiss guy explains everything and shows you some very simple and easy exercises. (No charge, it's totally free)
Erfolgreichste Tennisarm & Golfarm Heilmethode (You must scroll down for the English version, around halfway.)
I've been through it and can confirm, these exercises work better as anything else and cure you within a couple of days. At least that's what happened to me..
Edit: Take this link here, so you can choose the English version directly: English versionLast edited by DonEsteban; 04-01-2017 at 03:19 PM.
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That's an interesting video. Originally Posted by JakeAcci
Funny, it's like I told my son, they teach you how to put a condom on a banana but not hot to lift heavy weights to protect your back. Music teachers don't teach (AFAIK) how to protect your fretting arm against stress injuries.
I tried that bit in the video about not playing with my thumb, and have no discomfort in my wrist at all. For sure I'm pressing too hard but other than finding a Les Paul with incredibly low action and 007's the only possible solution I have for part of my bad habit is wrapping my thumb further around the neck towards the bass strings when possible. That helps a lot.
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I believe a good classical teacher does - but most rock/jazz/blues teachers...no way! Which is dumb, really! I stress it to all my students, especially those who are more serious. Originally Posted by GNAPPI
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I found that simply using a strap and playing the guitar more in the classical position rather than horizontal solved the issues immediately. Went from massive cramps in the arm and wrist on the first song to now being able to play for hours on end and no issues.
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Just to make sure, can you verifiably trace this pain solely to the guitar practice?
No heavy gardening/wood work with an axe or a shovel? Serious weight lifting? Martial arts? Anything else?
I've noticed that all above can stiff up your arm and wrist muscles, even without any obvious pain/soreness which will pop up while playing.
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I have a ritual of warm up gymnastic/stretching before playing guitar with some of the techniques mentioned above. I don´t have pain when playing but there´s one move, e.g. lifting a heavy book from a top shelf or taking a heavy jacket from a coat rack that I can feel in and around my elbow. Yesterday I did a short exercise with a power ball (https://www.power-ball.com/files/bg/...ll-modelle.jpg) and it feels a lot better today.
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