The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I read somewhere on the web Christian was playing .13's - probably Monel?

    It's definitely one strand of development - progressively towards a more hornlike style of playing. We can also bear in mind Charlie was an important influence on rock'n'roll and blue guitar as well as jazz...

    BTW I think pianists in general have much more developed phrasing than most guitarists.
    Last edited by christianm77; 07-08-2017 at 05:59 AM.

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  3. #27

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    with a horn - i was just thinking of this the other day - with a horn you have one abrupt transition between a note you need 1 finger to play to a note you need all your fingers to play, and back again

    if you have to play a phrase that goes over and over this transition its going to be a bit tougher than it usually is to phrase it musically all the time

    with a piano this sort of transition doesn't happen - but i suppose you have moments when you have to move your thumb under your fingers etc. i imagine this is typically even easier to handle on a piano than is the transition i just mentioned on flute/sax (very different on a trumpet of course)

    but i think - with string changes and position changes - the guitar puts a wide range of physical challenges in the way of easy musical phrasing

    the point is that the way you play even the simplest phrase needs to be wholly determined by how you hear it (or sing it to yourself etc.) - and having to move your hand around the neck of a guitar and handle the string/position change issues generated by the simplest set of pitches (a pentatonic sequence etc.) makes this a huge challenge

    you can't really 'slur' over a string change - so you have to avoid them when you need a 'slur'

    all on its own that can feel like a life's work on guitar

    of course you can learn how to play a whole bunch of phrase-types that you can amend and develop at will - and stick to them so you know how to phrase everything you try to play really genuinely and musically

    but if you're driven by a strong notion of improvisation - it can seem that you have to know every possible way to play any given phrase so you can start to learn how to find the one that makes it sound right - and that can seem a tall order

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groyniad
    with a horn
    but i think - with string changes and position changes - the guitar puts a wide range of physical challenges in the way of easy musical phrasing

    the point is that the way you play even the simplest phrase needs to be wholly determined by how you hear it (or sing it to yourself etc.) - and having to move your hand around the neck of a guitar and handle the string/position change issues generated by the simplest set of pitches (a pentatonic sequence etc.) makes this a huge challenge

    you can't really 'slur' over a string change - so you have to avoid them when you need a 'slur'

    all on its own that can feel like a life's work on guitar

    of course you can learn how to play a whole bunch of phrase-types that you can amend and develop at will - and stick to them so you know how to phrase everything you try to play really genuinely and musically

    but if you're driven by a strong notion of improvisation - it can seem that you have to know every possible way to play any given phrase so you can start to learn how to find the one that makes it sound right - and that can seem a tall order
    On piano or horn there are some fingering options, but they're limited. On guitar, just about every phrase presents a lengthy series of options for fingering and picking -- and, usually, no two sound exactly alike.

    At moderate tempos it's not that big a deal -- it's easy enough to find an approach that's playable and you can make some choices about sound. Where the guitar gets difficult, in my view, compared to other instruments, is at high tempo. The problems are usually in the right hand, although re-fingering the left hand to make the picking easier is commonplace.

    On other instruments, as I understand them, playing fast is just doing the same motions, well, faster. But, on guitar, depending on your picking habits, it may be necessary to find completely different ways to approach a passage. I think well-developed economy picking makes all this easier, but for those of us who don't have that fluidity in the right hand (and I think it's dependent on your nervous system -- not everybody can do it), getting a passage up to speed can require some thought.

    I recently posted about the opening of Curumim which starts with an E, goes to a G, C, and higher G. (the E, G and C are at V strings 2 4 3. Played slowly, you don't have to think about it. At high speed, the economy pickers execute it easily, I guess. For me, the passage (including the subsequent few bars) took a lot of thought. I tried it with various position shifts, pull-offs and so forth, eventually settling on playing the E, G and C all on the G string (IX, open, V). Since open strings don't sound the same, I had to work on it to make sure the phrase sounded right. Because it's so quick the ringing was not perceptible.

    If you want every note to pop out equally, it's really a challenge. I am in awe of players who can articulate every note of a complex passage with the same attack, no matter how they're fingering it. But, for many of us, including some truly great players, there are compromises involved constantly. Often style/art are rooted in what you can't do -- turning the disadvantage into something original. Pat Metheny's articulation is an example. Reportedly, Bossa Nova guitar was invented because the originators lived in apartments and had to play quietly late at night. Wes' appeal was based on the best tone ever -- but he acknowledged that he had to compromise on speed.

  5. #29

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    great post - that's just what i'm thinking about

    and i agree about wes' appeal incidentally - it is based on the best tone ever

  6. #30
    I still have my Wes Montgomery jazz instruction book I bought in 1970. I like the "word from Wes" where he says to hit the string lightly and let the amp do the work. My sound is always better when I implement that advice. No matter what picking style I choose to use.


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