compression pedal help

gingerjazz · #1 04-26-2010, 05:23 PM

do any of you guys use a compression pedal to to help achieve that lovely mellow jazz tone im chasing after i have an ibanez af 75 with flatwound strings and a fender blues junior amp and the sound is pretty good but i was wondering if a compression pedal would help even more does anyone know if any of the pros use compression to help with thier tone and if so who and which make of compressorany info would be great as i have never used pedals or effects before and wondered if i was missing out on anything thanks in advance for any help

derek · #2 04-26-2010, 05:53 PM

I dont hear much compression on most jazz guitars. Maybe with guys with more modern tone. I guess there could be some added post production. I have seen Sco's board, but don't remember seeing a compressor.

Is that a tone you like?

bkdavidson · #3 04-26-2010, 07:15 PM

I've heard some Bucky Pizzarelli that had some compression on it. Personally, I'm not a huge fan. Like Derek said, I could see that as something added post-production, where if it's done right it sounds okay. I think compression is kind of like make-up on women; if I can tell it's there, it's too much.

gadjo · #4 04-26-2010, 07:16 PM

Don't buy blindly. try to test the pedal on your gear.

The thing is i don't know if a compressor will get you where you want. It'll most likely make you louder and kill some of your dynamics (that's what compressors are made for.. killing dynamics in order to fit more loudness). If your style is loud and busy with lots of things happening at the same time, a compressor might be right, otherwise be careful.

You might want to try a good eq to see if boosting something in the lower mids does the job better.

anyway, please write here if you solve your problem, i'm interested too.
good luck!

lpdeluxe · #5 04-26-2010, 07:23 PM

Compression can also bring up finger noise and thumps and whatnot -- it's no cure-all. Back when I was just starting out in recording, we recorded a local church choir with upright piano and electric bass accompaniment. Since we had a compressor, we tried it out. What a disaster! On the compressed track, all you could hear was the noise from the pedals.

Compression is touted for bass (a couple of bass amps I have owned had built-in compression) but I have successfully avoided using it. I prefer simply listen to what I'm playing -- you will find yourself automatically adjusting to minimize "jazz-unfriendly" artifacts if you do that, and your technique will improve.

fep · #6 04-26-2010, 08:31 PM

You're playing thru a tube amp...

Tubes compress the sound so you already have a compressed sound, at clean settings it's slightly compressed with more overdrive it's compressed more.

Also a humbucker has a more compressed sound than a single coil... a strat has spikey peaks maybe 20db higher than the average sustained volume a les paul maybe only 6db between the peak and the average volume... It might make more sense to put a compressor on a strat than a les paul if you don't like those peaks.

fep · #7 04-26-2010, 08:52 PM

There's a guy named 'yep' (not to be confused with 'fep') on the reaper forum that is a great writer and explains all sorts of recording stuff in the thread below. I think everything he writes is worth reading. Here's the bit on compression and it's worth understanding if you're consider using compression:

For compression start at pg 6 post #227

Why do your recordings sound like ass? - Page 6 - Cockos Confederated Forums

billkath · #8 04-26-2010, 09:06 PM

Beware of using any sort of compression-let alone guitar type comp/sustain pedals with any sort of hollow or semi hollow guitars. By their very nature, as has been noted, they reduce your dynamic range and boost the overall volume, and thus really lower your feedback point. It gets nearly uncontrollable at stage levels. Comps are not great for what you want, anyway. Again-by their nature, they'll actually suck the life out of the tones you want.
My advice would be to look for a simple Bass EQ pedal- An EQ pedal voiced for bass guitar. The bass EQ's really let you tailor the end of the spectrum that you want for jazz to a greater extent than an EQ meant for guitar. Boss make a lovely one. I'm constantly getting "friends" who play bass dropping into me asking me if they can borrow mine "for a few hours"!! "Buy your own, you Blackguards!"
BOSS U.S. - GEB-7: Bass Equalizer

krusty · #9 04-27-2010, 12:47 AM

There's nothing wrong with compression, if you understand what it is used for and how. Many years ago, tape compressed things naturally, and we have been trying to achieve that sound live for years. Gently does it. A Keely 4-knob offers tremendous control, and I have used it in the past. I am currently running into a Rupert Neve Portico preamp/eq followed by a Portico tape emulator, and it provides me with the natural sounding compression of yore. This is my live rig, btw, and the output is blended 60/40ish with a dry signal to my Polytone amp.

gingerjazz · #10 04-27-2010, 06:51 AM

wow im blown away by all the the kind and thoughtfull responses i feel like ive got a thousand freinds this has really helped it looks like im going to be looking at an eq pedal instead thanks again and peace

billkath · #11 04-27-2010, 07:21 AM

Crikey-3 grand on pre/eq and comp for your live rig? Man, I'd be nevous as hell at bringing that out with me. Still-you probably play in much nicer places than I do!!! Lovely rig!! That parallel compression method you're using is a great "trick". It allows you to get the punch into your sound without killing the natural dynamics.
For those that don't know-compression is normally something that is done to the full signal. Motown engineers developed parallel compression-what they called "the exciting compresser"- where they mixed in a compressed signal with the clean, uncompressed signal. This wasn't for dynamics control-it was to add punch and excitement to a sound.
You might find this small article interesting
http://www.recordingeq.com/2006motown/06motown32.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by krusty

There's nothing wrong with compression, if you understand what it is used for and how. Many years ago, tape compressed things naturally, and we have been trying to achieve that sound live for years. Gently does it. A Keely 4-knob offers tremendous control, and I have used it in the past. I am currently running into a Rupert Neve Portico preamp/eq followed by a Portico tape emulator, and it provides me with the natural sounding compression of yore. This is my live rig, btw, and the output is blended 60/40ish with a dry signal to my Polytone amp.

krusty · #12 04-27-2010, 08:58 AM

Actually, I had the Portico stuff for recording at home, and I started experimenting with it just for fun. It was quite a revelation when I first tried it in a blended signal chain. The sound just came alive to my ears, so I kept using it.

Fidelcaster · #13 04-27-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billkath

That parallel compression method you're using is a great "trick". It allows you to get the punch into your sound without killing the natural dynamics.

The new Seymour Duncan compressor allows to blend the "wet" and "dry" signals. I've never tried it, tough, so I don't know if it's a good piece of gear.

billkath · #14 04-27-2010, 10:28 AM

The Double-Back? Yep-parallel compression, at last, in a stomp box. You have to remember, though-it's being used as an effect, not a compresser. It's there to add excitement, punch, sustain-all those things, but not to control dynamics. And That might be JUST what the original poster wants, though I think in his case EQ is the first point of call for a fix.

derek · #15 04-27-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billkath

Crikey-3 grand on pre/eq and comp for your live rig? Man, I'd be nevous as hell at bringing that out with me. Still-you probably play in much nicer places than I do!!! Lovely rig!! That parallel compression method you're using is a great "trick". It allows you to get the punch into your sound without killing the natural dynamics.
For those that don't know-compression is normally something that is done to the full signal. Motown engineers developed parallel compression-what they called "the exciting compresser"- where they mixed in a compressed signal with the clean, uncompressed signal. This wasn't for dynamics control-it was to add punch and excitement to a sound.
You might find this small article interesting
http://www.recordingeq.com/2006motown/06motown32.html

I have always contended that is what the BBE Aural Exciter does. Some compression, some uncompressed, and a slight upper mid boost. Had one in my rack during the 80's and early 90's.

Compression flattens out the peaks and valleys, and allows more sustain. It is SOP for country, and I have used it a bit for slide playing also. Just never equated that sound with jazz before, particularly traditional jazz. Now with the Frisells, Scos, and Sterns of the world, anything goes if you like it.

Last one I had was an Emma Transmorgrifier, nice pedal. The Keeley is on my list. I have had such great luck with my Keeley Fuzzhead that I want to try their compressor next.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #16 04-27-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek

Compression flattens out the peaks and valleys, and allows more sustain. It is SOP for country, and I have used it a bit for slide playing also.

Yup, A Tele with some OD and delay and the compression cranked spells "chikun pickun". At least, I think that's how you spell it.

billkath · #17 04-27-2010, 01:00 PM

The BBE works on time delay. They split the signal into upper , mid and lower frequencies, and slightly delays each of them to get different frequency bands arriving at the speakers at what they think are the correct times, or just at different times. It works brilliantly on guitars, but on full mixes it gets a bit annoying to my ears.
I believe what you believe might have been true for the Aphex Aural Exciter, though--I think you're very close how it did/does what it does. But -you just can't get a straight answer off Aphex!! It's a big secret, how their processer works.
You're right-to my ears compression (in that, I mean compressing the whole signal) is just not what I equate with a jazz sound.