Nut width question from new guy

LarryD · #1 04-22-2010, 01:46 PM

Greetings all, I am very new to jazz guitar though I have been playing acoustic, mostly folk-ish rhythm and finger style stuff for the last 30 years. I’ve recently started working my way through the Mickey Baker book due largely to recommendations from this forum and have been lurking in the shadows for a while now.

Over the years I have developed a decided preference for wider nuts on my acoustics. 1 ¾ is sort of a minimum at this point. I’ve noted that on several electrics and Jazz Guitars, a more typical range is 1 5/8 – 1 11/16 width. I have noted exceptions to this (Eastman) but for the most part, most of the guitars I might consider interesting have a narrower nut width than my current preference. I know that eventually I’m going to want to invest in a guitar more appropriate for jazz.

I was wondering if a narrower nut is actually preferable to a wider nut in jazz, especially fingerstyle jazz. I should also mention that while I really like the sound of an acoustic archtop, I’m really more looking electric oriented hollow body or semi hollow body instruments if that makes a difference.

Any insights regarding nut width for jazz styles would be greatly appreciated.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #2 04-22-2010, 02:03 PM

Nut widths on electric guitars seems to be classified as narrow (1 5/8) medium (1 11/16) and wide (1 3/4). I prefer the wide, especially for fingerstyle playing. I don't think there is an advantage to a narrower nut, although some people may simply prefer the feel. If you go to custom builders like USACG , you can get a super-wide (1 7/8) Tele neck, but the body pocket will have to be wider to match the neck's heel.

The Sadowsky Jim Hall model, which a lot of forum member think is an amazing ES-175 style guitar, has a 1 3/4" nut.

EDIT:

I don't know much about steel string neck sizes, so I was checking out the Larrivee web site (a little Canadian flag waving, here). I found these nut widths:

L series (L-03, -05, -10, etc): 1 3/4
D series (D-03, -05, -10, -05, etc...): 1 11/16
OM series (OM-03, -05, -10, -50, etc...): 1 3/4
LVV-11 ("finger picking"): 1 13/16
000 series: 1 13/16

So 1 11/16 or 1 3/4 is common and only a few go to 1 13/16.

fep · #3 04-22-2010, 02:59 PM

I'm with you I like a wider neck as I finger pick and a use hybrid picking technique.

Peter Sprague had a guitar made that is double necked, a classical and an electric. He has the classical neck a little narrower than a normal classical guitar and he has the electric neck a little wider than most electric guitars. Really nice.

bikemike · #4 04-22-2010, 03:20 PM

Years ago a highly respected guitar player and dealer told me that the nut width was determined by the use of the guitar. Narrower for rhythm strumming and wider for lead and picking. I don't know were he got that from. But I can tell you from experience that its easier to play cleaner melodic lines on a wider string spacing. Hence the classical guitar is 2" or a little more.

amusiathread · #5 04-22-2010, 03:26 PM

Abe Rivera is a custom builder who has made all of the guitars for Kevin Eubanks. The string spacing on these is pretty damn wide, though finding info on the guitars is a little tough.

YouTube - Kevin Eubanks Electric

bikemike · #6 04-22-2010, 03:42 PM

I'm fomulating a plan to build an archtop with a wider neck 2" or so as I've played classical for the past 30 years. I know you can play some great jazz on a classical guitar. I just want to build one and I might as well make it fit what I want.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #7 04-22-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikemike

I'm fomulating a plan to build an archtop with a wider neck 2" or so as I've played classical for the past 30 years. I know you can play some great jazz on a classical guitar. I just want to build one and I might as well make it fit what I want.

I like wide necks on steel-string guitars (at least partly because I like the feel of classical necks) but I wonder if at least some of the extra width in a 2" nut has to do with the string being nylon.

Consider the Godin Multiacs: Godin Guitars . I'm choosing them because they come in nylon-string and steel-string versions. The nylons mainly have a 1 7/8 nut and the steels a 1 11/16 nut.

So, your mileage may vary, but I'm wavering about what size nut to get. I know I like 1 3/4, but I wounder if ordering a custom 1 7/8 may be a a bit too much.

bikemike · #8 04-22-2010, 10:54 PM

Well BigDaddy I think you would have to play some guitars with narrow and wider necks to get a feel of what you like. The very reason I'd like to build one with a wide neck if I decide I don't like it I can take it back to the workshop and trim down the neck till it feels good.

LarryD · #9 04-23-2010, 12:54 PM

[quote]Nut widths on electric guitars seems to be classified as narrow (1 5/8) medium (1 11/16) and wide (1 3/4). I prefer the wide, especially for fingerstyle playing. I don't think there is an advantage to a narrower nut, although some people may simply prefer the feel. If you go to custom builders like USACG , you can get a super-wide (1 7/8) Tele neck, but the body pocket will have to be wider to match the neck's heel.

The Sadowsky Jim Hall model, which a lot of forum member think is an amazing ES-175 style guitar, has a 1 3/4" nut.
/QUOTE]
The Jim Hall model looks really nice but I'm sure I want to spend that much money yet. The custom tele approach might be an option though....

As far as a 1 7/8 nut, that is wonderful on an flat top. I have an older martin thats about that width that is delightful. I especially like having the additional room on the saddle end with makes for fingerpicking with the right hand alot more relaxed. The only downside for me is it makes it harder to fret bass strings with the thumb. Do jazz players do that by the way??

Anyway, this discussion has sort of talked me out of a guitar with a 1 5/8 nut that was beautiful but probably not a real good fit.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #10 04-23-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryD

The custom tele approach might be an option though....

As far as a 1 7/8 nut, that is wonderful on an flat top. I have an older martin thats about that width that is delightful. I especially like having the additional room on the saddle end with makes for fingerpicking with the right hand alot more relaxed. The only downside for me is it makes it harder to fret bass strings with the thumb. Do jazz players do that by the way??

Anyway, this discussion has sort of talked me out of a guitar with a 1 5/8 nut that was beautiful but probably not a real good fit.

Custom neck option: the more I think about it, the better it sounds. If you're happy with the idea of a Tele-style guitar, think of all the things you can specify:

* Fretboard wood. Ebony? No problem!
* Neck wood. You can go for a warmer wood like mahogany.
* Nut width. 'Nuff said.
* Neck countour. Like 'em fat? Boat?
* Radius. 7.25? 9.5? 12? Compound? Get what you like.
* Fret wire. Vintage, medium jumbo? Stainless steel?
* Inlay. Or not.
* Headstock. Maybe it's just me, but I like a RH Tele with a LH headstock.

Thumb fretting: Some crazy jazz chords require it! I also like sneaking my thumb around the bottom of the neck and fretting chord notes on the treble side with my thumb. It feels so wrong!

1 5/8" nut: Given the shine you take to a 1 7/8" nut, I'd say you really have to shift gears for that narrower nut. And keep away from Squier Affinity Teles: their nut is even narrower than 1 5/8".

bikemike · #11 04-23-2010, 03:12 PM

Thumbing bass notes are harder on a wider neck. Coming from classical guitar I haven't played enough Jazz to encounter a chord I absolutely had to use my thumb but I'm sure I eventually will. I'm a rank beginner at this jazz stuff. So I don't know alot about it yet. But I do know I have big hands and fingers and have a hard time with narrower necks. Also I have played some rock and blues and a narrow string spacing at the bridge is easier to strum with a pick.

Norman931 · #12 04-23-2010, 05:08 PM

What about Maccaferri-style guitars like SX JAN-1 w/Case New Gypsy Jazz Guitar - eBay (item 390181394723 end time May-10-10 14:59:25 PDT)

1 7/8 nut width! I just ordered one of these to see how it compares to the Gitane gypsys.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #13 04-23-2010, 05:18 PM

Interesting. I think the "petite bouche" gypsy guitars also have a longer scale length, too, something like 26 1/2"?

Norman931 · #14 04-23-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Interesting. I think the "petite bouche" gypsy guitars also have a longer scale length, too, something like 26 1/2"?

Yes, and 1 3/4" nut width. The SX however, is 1 7/8 at the zero fret with 25.75" scale length.

CORRECTION: The SX has 25.5" scale length.

Norman931 · #15 04-28-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman931

What about Maccaferri-style guitars like SX JAN-1 w/Case New Gypsy Jazz Guitar - eBay (item 390181394723 end time May-10-10 14:59:25 PDT)

1 7/8 nut width! I just ordered one of these to see how it compares to the Gitane gypsys.

I just received this, and the pictures don't do it justice. Beautiful gloss finish, the nicest guitar case I've ever owned, and the guitar plays and sounds great. It's not quite in the same league as the Gitane, but it's close, and at 1/3 the price. Scale length is 25.5", so the specs for this one are more in line with Gitane's D-hole model.