charlie christian loller pups.........

freddy j · #1 03-27-2010, 07:03 PM

watched , and listened to the cc/loller pick up video, forget the brothers name. great player, on a butterscotch tele. they sound great. my question is, is it more him, or are the pups really that much different/ better than etc, etc, etc. or maybe a little of both.??? anyone!!

SamBooka · #2 03-27-2010, 07:13 PM

I have a CC rider I will be installing in a couple of weeks.
Can you post the URL for the vid?

Grazie..

Drew

freddy j · #3 03-27-2010, 07:23 PM

tim lerch charlie christian loller demo, on youtube. sorry man can't do the hocus pocus thing and cut and paste etc. type it in you'll love it

msr13 · #4 03-27-2010, 07:36 PM

Tim Lerch is fantastic... and the pickups are all that. They are amazing.

Drifter · #5 03-27-2010, 11:03 PM

I fell in love with this pickup the moment I saw this video. I wonder how it would sound in an archtop...

Archie · #6 03-28-2010, 03:43 AM

Last night I was listening to Kenny Burrell's Midnight Blue album, and was blown away by the guitar tone. I searched the internet and saw that around that time he was playing a Gibson archtop with what looks like a Charlie Christian pickup. I'm now seriously considering ordering one of the Lollar CCs.

mongrel · #7 03-28-2010, 11:02 AM

I also love the sound of the Lollars on those videos. I've got three of the Vintage Vibe HCC pickups in humbucker size and they don't get to that special place the Lollars do. I think it boils down to the wire size: Lollar uses .38 gauge wire which is the same as the original Gibson pickups while the others use 42 gauge wire. Pete Biltoft of Vintage Vibe explained that .38 gauge is too big to put enough windings in the bucker size.

Drifter · #8 03-28-2010, 12:31 PM

The sound of Mr. Burrells guitar on Midnight Blue is as classic as the album itself. Can anyone confirm that he played a Gibson with CC pup back then? And if so, what kind of Gibson? Laminated or carved top?

Archie · #9 03-28-2010, 12:58 PM

Here he's holding a guitar with what looks like a P-90:

This is the one I thought looked like a CC:

In other pics he uses guitars with humbuckers.

Drifter · #10 03-28-2010, 01:36 PM

I guess it will be impossible to find out which one he played on Midnight Blue ...

randyc · #11 03-28-2010, 02:44 PM

I don't recall when that particular album was made but a friend (a New Yorker) used to catch Burrell in the early sixties and told me that he was playing an L-7C? (not sure of the exact model but it was an accoustic archtop) with a De Armond pickup attached to the pickguard. Perhaps that might explain the distinctive tone.

NSJ · #12 03-28-2010, 06:48 PM

the Lollar (not "Loller", as the thread wrongly indicates) CC pickup for Tele is, in a word, truly EXCEPTIONAL: Clear, clean, balanced, warm, without being too dark. Just about PERFECT-no twang whatsoever. Have no need for the bridge pup or any thing like that.

Makes a Tele a great jazz box!

freddy j · #13 03-28-2010, 07:05 PM

my apologies to mr. lollar!

Archie · #14 03-29-2010, 12:36 AM

I think Midnight Blue was recorded in 1963. When I first heard it I thought the tone sounded a lot like Grant Green's, and I believe he used a guitar with P90s.

ingeneri · #15 03-29-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randyc

I don't recall when that particular album was made but a friend (a New Yorker) used to catch Burrell in the early sixties and told me that he was playing an L-7C? (not sure of the exact model but it was an accoustic archtop) with a De Armond pickup attached to the pickguard. Perhaps that might explain the distinctive tone.

Jay Wolfe (world's biggest Heritage Guitar dealer, for whom Burrell now endorses two signature models) said Burrell told him it was an L-5C modified with a CC pup. In addition to the guitar photographed above (Randy, note the L5 headsotck) there is another suburst version he used. Photos of that guitar are featured in the liner notes for Motten Swing and Jimmy Smith's Home Cookin', both of which came out around the same time as Midnight Blue.

From what I've put together from photos and net rumor:

1950s: ES-175 with P-90s (there are photos of him with both one and two pickup versions, not clear if its two different guitars or a later mod)

early 1960s: L5 with Charlie Christian (there's also an Epiphone with a dearmond on the cover of Crash from this time)

mid/late 1960s: D'angelico New Yorker with Dearmond RC (the guitar featured on the youtube vid with Grant Green and Barney)

1970s-2000:Super 400 (though there are photos of him using a sunburst D'angelico and some very 70s Jack Niclaus plaid pants)

Turn of the century: Benedetto and Heritage signature

Today: Youtube videos since the 2005 75th birthday concert show Burrell back with the Super 400. Hard to beat an early 60's florentine Super.

monk · #16 03-29-2010, 12:32 PM

The store where I used to teach installed a set of Lollar CC pups on a Frankenparts Tele that the store tech built. It was one of the best sounds I've ever heard. I'm thinking about installing a set in my '68 Tele.
Regards,
monk

randyc · #17 03-29-2010, 05:29 PM

Thanks, ingeneri, very interesting !!

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #18 03-29-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSJ

the Lollar (not "Loller", as the thread wrongly indicates) CC pickup for Tele is, in a word, truly EXCEPTIONAL: Clear, clean, balanced, warm, without being too dark. Just about PERFECT-no twang whatsoever. Have no need for the bridge pup or any thing like that.

Makes a Tele a great jazz box!

+1.

What I highlighted in your quote would be apostasy to most Tele players, however!

Drifter · #19 03-29-2010, 08:49 PM

ingeneri, thanks for sharing! Good to know!

bigeric · #20 08-21-2010, 01:39 PM

I play a late 40's non cut Gibson L 50. I installed a Lollar CC pickup.
It sounds amazing. Its a blast to play. I owned the guitar for 30 years or so before I finally modified it. Extremely happy with the results.
The installation was comical took 4 different repair men to get it right.

ES125er · #21 08-21-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigeric

I play a late 40's non cut Gibson L 50. I installed a Lollar CC pickup.
It sounds amazing. Its a blat to play. I owne the guitar for 30 years or so before I finally modified it. Extremely happy with the results.
The installation was comical took 4 different repair men to get it right.

Could you please elaborate on the problems you faced during the install? Did you have any problem with the braces? How did you deal with the volume and tone controls: holes though the top or on the pickguard?
I've been considering doing something similar either with my Eastman or with a "cheap" vintage guitar.

Thanks.

BTW, pictures would also be welcome, of course.

bigeric · #22 08-22-2010, 12:01 PM

I will glady post some pics later today. I went for an accurate installation.
So I went with the original 3 point mounted pickup.
Braces were cut. i also installed v/t knobs in the top so I drilled holes
I wanted to try and recreate the look and sound of an original C/C es 150.

This guitar is a solid spruce top with solid maple sides and back.
It was a very good sounding guitar to begin with. I think its a 1946. Fat script logo decal.

The first luthier and I cut the hole. No problem with that really.
tHE c/c pickup is mounted on a plexi plate and would not fit into the hole we had just cut. So we had to modify the plate with a grinder. After about an hour of massaging the plate it finally goes in.
I was moving across the country so I could not complete the installation.
3 weeks go by and I'm now relocated to Vegas.
The guitar must be turned upside down to work on as there is no access from the back. I made a small tool to help attach springs to the pickup mount. This was very difficult.Also all the electronics had to be wired outside the guitar and then fished thru the f holes. We actually get the the springs on the base plate but for some reason the pickupheight will not adjust correctly.
Next repairman. He attempts to relocate 3 top holes for mounting pickup. No success he gives up after a week.
Next repairman is successful. He builds a very accurate tool uses conical springs and there she is.

So I am very happy with the results. Its one of the best sounding archtops I have ever played. I wish I did it 30 years ago. The work sterched out over a 2 month period across the country.

jazzbow · #23 08-22-2010, 02:00 PM

Nice pix and good work!
Just a quick post in favour of humbucker sized vintage vibe cc riders.
Bought mine for my s/h project tanglewood/cort J R Triggs ply hollow body guitar for three reasons.
First for the ability to change the magnets in the pickups (choice of two sets, went for weakest and strongest alnico).
Second for the faux tortoise shell top and third for the price.
At present I've only tried the weaker magnet which is very sweet thru a cube 60 on all settings.. I also changed pots and got a new old stock orange capacitor. Total cost for cheapo jazzer is £370 sterling including a set of strings!! Cheap thrills..
Now tell me something, do any of you cc pickup players notice the B string coming through quite loudly compared to the other strings??
Barney Kessel made a notch under the B string on his early cc pickup and I noticed that Gibson eventually made this pickup with a notch as standard. I have found I need to amend my pick attack to compensate for the louder B string!

bigeric · #24 08-22-2010, 07:25 PM

My L 50 with th Lollar pickup seems to be even thruout.

Drifter · #25 08-22-2010, 09:30 PM

bigeric, very nice project! Your patience paid...

NSJ · #26 08-22-2010, 09:40 PM

Very cool! Thanks for sharing!

bigeric · #27 08-22-2010, 10:10 PM

my pleasure! its nice to hear from fellow enthusiasts!

rabbit · #28 08-22-2010, 10:42 PM

Lovely, congratulations!

My kind of guitar.

ES125er · #29 08-23-2010, 01:03 AM

Lovely guitar indeed!

I am not sure I would be brave enough to have the braces cut, though... Is the L-50 ladder or x-braced? Does one of the two bracing types make it easier to install a pickup?

bigeric · #30 08-23-2010, 11:42 AM

Cutting into your guitar is not something I would recommend. However in this case I had an acoustic guitar that saw very little playing time.
Now I have a guitar that is versatile and sounds excellent. I play it all the time. Its my guitar and I WILL NEVER SELL IT. So its on my shoulders.
I am not telling anybody to cut up their vintage axe. In my case it was worth it.
As far as the braces are concerned I belive it was x braced. The installation is difficult. Lollar makes a C/C pickup tht mounts like traditional P 90. I wanted the traditional look of a period instrument.

On another note the tone and sound of this guitar is mainly due its age.
It is old wood well and that is that. I dont think that a new guitar such as an Eastman will sound like this. Of course this is my opinion.
The bottom line is would I do it again. In a heartbeat!

I am looking at 39 L7 as my next project. Its a blonde and would be similar to an Gibson es 250.