Tal Farlow Gibson

[TommyD]

I think it's a given that the Tal Farlow Gibson guitar has a sound unique to itself. To my ear, it's a sound that's solid, dark, not over-resonant, and really punchy - perfect for jazz. It's a sound you can't mistake. I can walk into a club and know while I'm taking off my coat if the guitarist is playing one.
There's a guy on utube, "dutchbopper", who bought one and plays it pretty well. Take a listen. YouTube - Have You Met Miss Jones
I don't know exactly how it was developed, except that when I asked T.F. about it, he said he wanted it to be "road worthy", and joked that he could stand on it without harming it.
Does anybody know how that unique sound came about? Was it Tal's input? If so, what?
Was it the pups? The bracing? The fact that it was a laminated guitar? I have a laminated ES 165 and it doesn't sound like a T.F., so I don't think that that's it.
anyway, I wish I could afford one!

Tal's alter ego, aka Tommy/

[Bill C]

Originally Posted by TommyD

Was it the pups? The bracing? The fact that it was a laminated guitar? I have a laminated ES 165 and it doesn't sound like a T.F., so I don't think that that's it.

bigger body, longer scale, maple neck might contribute to the difference with the 165 ...

[derek]

Originally Posted by TommyD

I think it's a given that the Tal Farlow Gibson guitar has a sound unique to itself. To my ear, it's a sound that's solid, dark, not over-resonant, and really punchy - perfect for jazz. It's a sound you can't mistake. I can walk into a club and know while I'm taking off my coat if the guitarist is playing one.
There's a guy on utube, "dutchbopper", who bought one and plays it pretty well. Take a listen. YouTube - Have You Met Miss Jones
I don't know exactly how it was developed, except that when I asked T.F. about it, he said he wanted it to be "road worthy", and joked that he could stand on it without harming it.
Does anybody know how that unique sound came about? Was it Tal's input? If so, what?
Was it the pups? The bracing? The fact that it was a laminated guitar? I have a laminated ES 165 and it doesn't sound like a T.F., so I don't think that that's it.
anyway, I wish I could afford one!

Tal's alter ego, aka Tommy/

I owned a 99/00 TF for a year or so. It is longer scaled, 17" lower bout, and thinner than a 175/165. Otherwise, same basic materials, same pups. I really liked mine, but like my 175 better, so I sold it a couple of years ago because it wasn't getting played.

Dick Onstenk (aka Dutchbopper) and I have debated the 175 v TF many times. He also has a 175 and a 125. He sounds good on any of them.

[Steve Z]

Great youtube link - thanks for posting it.

I watched some of his other videos... what a great player. The tone from the video you posted is what I like as well, but from watching his other clips he gets that tone out of other guitars as well. Additionally, there is a clip with the Tal Farlow guitar that sounds bright and thin. My point I guess is that one guitar does not produce "that tone" all the time, and many guitar can achieve "that tone".

Again, great links.

Another Tal Farlow guitar clip, same player but a brighter/thinner sounds
YouTube - Cherokee


Another Gibson archtop clip with warm/dark jazz tone
YouTube - Jingles


Cheers,
Steve

[TommyD]

Originally Posted by Bill C

bigger body, longer scale, maple neck might contribute to the difference with the 165 ...

Bill:
I'm not comparing the T.F Gibson to the ES 165, I'm comparing it to ALL other guitars. My 165 doesn't hold a candle.
Besides, a lot of Gibsons have a 25.5" scale, a maple neck, and a wide lower bout. None of 'em sound like a Tal Farlow.
Tommy/

[TommyD]

Originally Posted by Steve Z

Great youtube link - thanks for posting it.

I watched some of his other videos... what a great player. The tone from the video you posted is what I like as well, but from watching his other clips he gets that tone out of other guitars as well. Additionally, there is a clip with the Tal Farlow guitar that sounds bright and thin. My point I guess is that one guitar does not produce "that tone" all the time, and many guitar can achieve "that tone".

Again, great links.

Another Tal Farlow guitar clip, same player but a brighter/thinner sounds
YouTube - Cherokee


Another Gibson archtop clip with warm/dark jazz tone
YouTube - Jingles


Cheers,
Steve

Steve: That "bright, thin" sound on Cherokee is not the guitar, it's the amplification system. I noticed that too. I also noticed that on Cherokee, he plays one phrase wrong. Did you pick it up?
Best, T/

[TommyD]

Originally Posted by derek

I owned a 99/00 TF for a year or so. It is longer scaled, 17" lower bout, and thinner than a 175/165. Otherwise, same basic materials, same pups. I really liked mine, but like my 175 better, so I sold it a couple of years ago because it wasn't getting played.

Dick Onstenk (aka Dutchbopper) and I have debated the 175 v TF many times. He also has a 175 and a 125. He sounds good on any of them.

Hi Derek!
Yeah, he does sound good on all of them. And he seems to have a passel of guitars!
Speaking of individual Gibsons, I could never account for the annoying "ring" of the 175 strings when we're playing single-note stuff. It's been a problem over all the years that the 175 has been available, and I don't know of any other that does it (there may be another - I just don't know about it, and I see also that players go to all kinds of trouble to mute it.)
You would have thought that by now, Gibson, who surely know the cause, might have changed a brace or a location of something to eliminate it, but they haven't.
How's the fretboard width on the Tal Farlow? Looks wider than the 175.

Tommy/

[TommyD]

There's one thing I forgot. Dick Ostenk (dutchbopper) uses one of these and says that it really helps. Anybody know anything about its effects? Thinking about buying one. Maybe it'll get rid of the ES175 overtones.
DigiTech RP355 | Sweetwater.com

[NeillonGuitar]

Originally Posted by TommyD

Hi Derek!
Yeah, he does sound good on all of them. And he seems to have a passel of guitars!
Speaking of individual Gibsons, I could never account for the annoying "ring" of the 175 strings when we're playing single-note stuff. It's been a problem over all the years that the 175 has been available, and I don't know of any other that does it (there may be another - I just don't know about it, and I see also that players go to all kinds of trouble to mute it.)
You would have thought that by now, Gibson, who surely know the cause, might have changed a brace or a location of something to eliminate it, but they haven't.
How's the fretboard width on the Tal Farlow? Looks wider than the 175.

Tommy/

Ah! I guess I'm hijacking this thread.
That ringing problem sounds like the problem my Guild Starfire 2 (2002?) had, playing the G and B string mostly, roughly around the 9th and 10th fret. I tried felt and cloth to block things to no avail. It is now sadly for sale on consignment at my local shop because that ringing overtone fractured me mentally.
Are 175's prone to the same sort of problem?


NL

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by TommyD

How's the fretboard width on the Tal Farlow? Looks wider than the 175.

According to the Gibson web site, the Tal Farlow has a 25 1/2" scale length and the neck width is 1 11/16" at the nut, which I would call a "medium". The body is 17" wide and 3" deep. The ES-175 page claims the scale length is 24" but that's probably a typo for 24 3/4". The nut is also 1 11/16". The body is 16" wide and 3" deep.

Gibson Tal Farlow ES-175

[TommyD]

NL said:
"That ringing problem sounds like the problem my Guild Starfire 2 (2002?) had, playing the G and B string mostly, roughly around the 9th and 10th fret. I tried felt and cloth to block things to no avail. It is now sadly for sale on consignment at my local shop because that ringing overtone fractured me mentally.
Are 175's prone to the same sort of problem?"

Yes, 175s are notorious for it, and people have tried all kinds of remedies. Herb Ellis had a Rube Goldberg metal affair which was screwed to the headstock (or maybe the truss rod cover) and swung a piece of felt down over the strings in back if the first fret for soloing. It used to squeek when he flipped the lever!
Myself, I'm now using a small piece of chamois about a half-inch wide and maybe a half-inch longer than the width of the nut. I doubled the thickness by folding it and slid it under the strings, then worked it back to the nut. It's very effective but makes playing the first fret chords a pain. It doesn't deaden the strings at all except for the part about the guitar playing itself.
I don't understand the why of it all; why the 175 hums strings that are not being plucked, and why Gibson never approached the issue, since it's essentially Gibson's only guitar that does that - they must know how to eliminate it.
tommy/

[derek]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

According to the Gibson web site, the Tal Farlow has a 25 1/2" scale length and the neck width is 1 11/16" at the nut, which I would call a "medium". The body is 17" wide and 3" deep. The ES-175 page claims the scale length is 24" but that's probably a typo for 24 3/4". The nut is also 1 11/16". The body is 16" wide and 3" deep.

Gibson Tal Farlow ES-175

Hmm. Odd, but the recent model Tal I had was not 3" deep. It was thinner than the 175 without a doubt.

TommyD,

The Tal's neck was a bit thinner than the 175, but not by much. It was pretty easy for me to go back and forth between the two, as I regularly play a Tele and Strat, so the longer scale is no issue. Fine guitar, and I wouldn't mind owning another.

[Steve Z]

Originally Posted by TommyD

Steve: That "bright, thin" sound on Cherokee is not the guitar, it's the amplification system. I noticed that too. I also noticed that on Cherokee, he plays one phrase wrong. Did you pick it up?
Best, T/

The amplification variable was my point... many guitars can get the great warm/jazz tone just as they can get a bright/thin tone. I would love to have a TF Gibson as well, but the tone from the initial video posted can be obtained from guitars other than the TF.

Yeah, I noticed the wrong phrase... uh, well, who I am kidding, I only heard some great playing way above my playing ability. I can get tone all day long with my gear... now if my guitars only came preloaded with talent

[Scotto]

I just found a Tal Farlow with a nice color... just thought I would share. Would love to have an L5 in this color so I saved it.

[derek]

Originally Posted by Scotto

I just found a Tal Farlow with a nice color... just thought I would share. Would love to have an L5 in this color so I saved it.

The wine color is the least desirable market wise, so if you like that, you could get a good deal I would think. The Viceroy burst is tops, followed by the blonde, VSB, with wine and black pulling up the end. This is based on watching sales of them the past 5 years or so.

[TommyD]

Originally Posted by derek

The wine color is the least desirable market wise, so if you like that, you could get a good deal I would think. The Viceroy burst is tops, followed by the blonde, VSB, with wine and black pulling up the end. This is based on watching sales of them the past 5 years or so.

I think that the blond models (talking about new guitars)are always a little more expensive because the entire case has to be made of wood that's perfect, Every blemish shows. whereas the darker colors, and esp. the sunburst does not have that restriction on wood selection.
Not long ago I priced a Tal Farlow @ Sam Ash. The sunburst one was in the $38's and the all-blond one (like Tal used to play) was in the $41's.
Interesting.

Tommy/

[parker_knoll]

if anyone wants to sell me a Tal Farlow let me know

[M-ster]

I'd call dutchbopper's TF tone "blunt" - and that's not necessarily derogatory. It's an attractive/percussive sound, when that's called for.

The Herb Ellis contraption actually flipped down in front of the nut (i.e. on the first fret side) to place a strip of felt over open strings in an effort to damp them from ringing.

[customxke]

Originally Posted by M-ster

I'd call dutchbopper's TF tone "blunt" - and that's not necessarily derogatory. It's an attractive/percussive sound, when that's called for.

The Herb Ellis contraption actually flipped down in front of the nut (i.e. on the first fret side) to place a strip of felt over open strings in an effort to damp them from ringing.

It was a VanEps string damper.

[backliner]

Originally Posted by customxke

It was a VanEps string damper.

I always thought those were feedback suppressors for when the volume got above conversational levels, like in an ensemble with a drummer.

My other thought about Tal Farlow guitars is that he was going for less sustain by design, to suit his style?

I have a CD of an early album of Tal Farlow's where he's posing with what looks like Barney Kessell's guitar (ES-350?), except it has a P-90 in the bridge position and a Charlie Christian pickup in the neck position.

There was one that got away at Guitar Showcase a couple years ago (I mean a Tal Farlow) that was new (Custom Shop?), stupid cheap, and had terrible "orange peel" finish issues on the neck binding. I tried to like it but couldn't get past the lacquer job they shot on the side of the neck.

[SamBooka]

Originally Posted by backliner

I always thought those were feedback suppressors for when the volume got above conversational levels, like in an ensemble with a drummer.

You are correct. Although in an interview with Herb Ellis in GP (1980 something) he said even the open strings didnt sound that bad with it engaged.