How many watts do I need?

[bmanyanks]

I have been playing several small jazz gigs with a bass, sax, and bongo player and need help picking out a suitable amp. I was renting a Roland Cube 80X for a little while and loved the sound out of it. How many watts would suffice to play with this type of setup for cafe-type gigs? And any recommendations on amps that are easy to transport but durable?

[bkdavidson]

For that setup you won't need a very powerful amp. That Cube is way more than you need. I used to own a Cube 60 and played in a 12 piece wedding band with it. If you stick with solid state, you won't need more than 30 to 40 watts. As far as amps, I would recommend trying out a Phil Jones CUB. They're extremely small, lightweight, and come with a soft carrying case. There's also the ZT Lunchbox. I own a CUB and love it, but don't own a Lunchbox. Some of the guys here do, so they might chime in about it. There's also some threads about both amps on here.

[TieDyedDevil]

There's no direct correlation between wattage and perceived loudness. You're at the mercy of several things:

1) Manufacturers don't, in general, use a consistent method of measuring the power delivered by the amp to the speaker. Even if everyone sold exactly the same amp, the published wattage number may vary by a factor of 2 to 4 depending upon the method used to obtain the rating.

2) Differences of less than a factor of two in actual wattage, all other things being equal, are barely noticeable in terms of perceived loudness.

3) The efficiency of the speaker can make a huge difference in perceived loudness. Speaking in very broad generalities, it's likely that a speaker having a broader, flatter (more even) frequency response will have a lower perceived loudness than a speaker having a narrow, peaky frequency response.

4) The design of the preamplifier has some effect on perceived loudness, to the extent that it emphasizes frequencies to which the ear is more sensitive.



All that aside, the Cub should be adequate for your bass / sax / bongo / guitar quartet. I've played in larger jazz combos using a Cub; it kept up, but just barely.

I had a Roland Cube 30X at one time. It's incredibly loud, size notwithstanding, but I hated its tonality.

I still own an AER Compact 60. This amp is, IME, head and shoulders above the Cub in perceived volume. The C60 delivers a little *less* bass than the Cub and is crisper on the high end. If you go for a traditional (reduced treble) jazz tone then the Cub may be a better choice. Since I play fingerstyle using short nails, the treble extension of the C60 improves clarity.

[derek]

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil

There's no direct correlation between wattage and perceived loudness. You're at the mercy of several things:

1) Manufacturers don't, in general, use a consistent method of measuring the power delivered by the amp to the speaker. Even if everyone sold exactly the same amp, the published wattage number may vary by a factor of 2 to 4 depending upon the method used to obtain the rating.

2) Differences of less than a factor of two in actual wattage, all other things being equal, are barely noticeable in terms of perceived loudness.

3) The efficiency of the speaker can make a huge difference in perceived loudness. Speaking in very broad generalities, it's likely that a speaker having a broader, flatter (more even) frequency response will have a lower perceived loudness than a speaker having a narrow, peaky frequency response.

4) The design of the preamplifier has some effect on perceived loudness, to the extent that it emphasizes frequencies to which the ear is more sensitive.



All that aside, the Cub should be adequate for your bass / sax / bongo / guitar quartet. I've played in larger jazz combos using a Cub; it kept up, but just barely.

I had a Roland Cube 30X at one time. It's incredibly loud, size notwithstanding, but I hated its tonality.

I still own an AER Compact 60. This amp is, IME, head and shoulders above the Cub in perceived volume. The C60 delivers a little *less* bass than the Cub and is crisper on the high end. If you go for a traditional (reduced treble) jazz tone then the Cub may be a better choice. Since I play fingerstyle using short nails, the treble extension of the C60 improves clarity.

Great explaination. Also, there is the difference between tube watts and ss watts. You need less watts with a tube amp than ss. For jazz, it is all about having enough clean headroom. Tone is subjective, so what one guy thinks is great another just ho hum. Thing is to try to play thru as many as you can and decide for yourself.

However, unless you live or travel to larger cities, amp choices may be pretty slim. Amps like the Cub and AER, along with Acoustic Image, Polytone and others are hard to come by. Many of us have had to buy without playing first. Good luck with the process.

[Doctor Jeff]

Originally Posted by bmanyanks

I have been playing several small jazz gigs with a bass, sax, and bongo player and need help picking out a suitable amp.

Forgive me, if the words "jazz" and "bongo" in the same sentence bring up certain images: