Polish Removal/damage on archtop?

Dr.K-Miller · #1 12-26-2009, 03:12 PM

Hello everyone,

I have a Peerless Journeyman & I noticed that at the edge above the switch the wood is rough (i.e. not smooth/polished).

You can feel it by touch as if there's polish missing there and you can see it with light (it is not glossy over that area).

I tried my best with the photos to give you an idea although it doesn't really show.

The troubling(?) thing is that it is on the edge of the woods (cover & sides).

So, here are the questions:

1.Is it alarming? will it eventually lead to some serious damage to the guitar?

2.Is it fixable? Is there something I or a technitian/luthier can do?

3.When I clean/polish the guitar, should I avoid polishing that area?

randyc · #2 12-26-2009, 04:23 PM

The finish on your guitar is probably polyurethane, that means other "touch up finishes" won't readily adhere to it. (Even polyurethane won't adhere to polyurethane without surface preparation - at a minimum, scuffing the old finish.) In order to re-coat that area, the surrounding area would have to be masked, then the offending area prepped and the surface sprayed with "poly". After curing, the blend between old and new finishes needs to be buffed out until they appear even.

In short, it's not a simple process. The older hand-applied "French polish" finishes, or shellac and lacquer sprays, although not as protective as poly or easy to apply, are extremely forgiving about touch-up.

If it was ME, I'd simply wax/buff that area periodically (and the whole guitar occasionally) with a good paste wax (carnauba-base). The product unfailingly used here in America in older days was called "Johnson's Floor Wax". After ten or twenty applications of the wax, although the gloss may not be the same as the rest of the guitar, you'll have adequate protection against casual exposure to moisture and humidity.

Good luck, that's an irritating little flaw to find, I'm sure. Funny how even a tiny defect on a new guitar can get magnified out of proportion !

randyc

PS: when you post photos, if they are excessively large (like yours), all the rest of the posts in the thread will be scaled to the same size and it's very awkward to follow the thread. You might try scaling them to some standard width, like 800 pixels ...

cosmic gumbo · #3 12-27-2009, 02:10 AM

Oh my goodness, that is scarey stuff to look at, get rid of it quickly! Something like this can drive you over the brink sooner than you think!

Dr.K-Miller · #4 12-27-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Oh my goodness, that is scarey stuff to look at, get rid of it quickly! Something like this can drive you over the brink sooner than you think!

What do you mean!?? That it will drive me insane (through worrying) or that it will cause some major distruction & problem to the guitar?

Quote:

Originally Posted by randyc

You might try scaling them to some standard width, like 800 pixels ...

Took care of it - sorry about that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by randyc

If it was ME, I'd simply wax/buff that area periodically (and the whole guitar occasionally) with a good paste wax (carnauba-base).

Many thanks for the suggestions; can you suggest something from this list: thomann.de

Also, appart from using Wax (on the area & on the guitar as a whole) what about cleaning agents? When I bought the guitar, the dealer gave me an "Ernie Ball Guitar Polish" thing. Should I keep using that (even on the "area") or should I leave it aside & just use the wax?

P.S.: many many thanks for the suggestions!

randyc · #5 12-27-2009, 01:02 PM

Carnauba is good, beeswax is used on fine furniture so that compound is probably a good selection too. (I neglected to mention that IF anyone ever has to perform refinishing work on the guitar, you must inform them that you've used wax so that they can remove it before re-working.)

I've never used anything for cleaning but furniture polish - maybe someone else has ideas on that subject ?

plasticpigeon · #6 01-03-2010, 02:15 PM

I can't work out what is going on there. I think the finish will be some kind of catalysed polyester lacquer, like 2 pack car lacquer, and like randyc said, it is hard to spray over as the surface needs to be sanded. Also it is very hard to completely blend in the repair. If the lacquer is just rough it can be sanded with fine sand paper (start with 1200 then 1500 and then 2000 grit) and then polish with a buffing compound. If it has already been overpolished in the factory and has gone through to the wood then that is more concerning. Personally I would try and protect the area with french polish (white polish) as that is the only thing I know that will stick to the polyester finish without prep. It is also very easy to remove (with alchohol) if need be in the future. I don't believe it will have any structural effect on the guitar though, just a cosmetic one.

randyc · #7 01-03-2010, 02:29 PM

Hi, PP, that's a fine suggestion, wish I'd thought of it !! Better than filling the pores with any kind of wax as I suggested. (Those unfamiliar with "french polishing" can find plenty of internet information.) I use shellac frequently for priming but it hadn't occurred to me to use it for temporary surface repair over a poly base coat.

Dr.K-Miller · #8 01-03-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plasticpigeon

I don't believe it will have any structural effect on the guitar though, just a cosmetic one.

That is my only concern to be honest, to avoid any unpleasant problems in the future. All that worries me is that it's at the joint.

I did speak to the dealer about it on the phone & he appeared quite clueless

I will take the guitar to him this week to see what he has to say & do...

Happy new year btw.

Dr.K-Miller · #9 01-03-2010, 02:50 PM

Also, any specific product you would suggest?

randyc · #10 01-03-2010, 03:08 PM

Ask at your local hardware/paint store for a good brand of pre-mixed shellac, the smallest container available. (Check the date on the container, shellac degrades after a year or so ...) Then check the internet for full instructions on how to "french polish".

It's an excellent suggestion and you can have a decent finish in an afternoon with the option of removing the coat in a few minutes with denatured alcohol - which won't affect the polyurethane base finish. We should be grateful that Plastic Pigeon has joined us, his knowledge of the finishing processes will be valuable

plasticpigeon · #11 01-04-2010, 06:09 AM

It seems that only a tiny area is affected so you could probably just brush the polish on with a small soft brush and leave it at that. French polishing with a rag or pad is a bit more involved and takes a while to master. Just a few tips that work for me if you try to do it the proper way. I would use white polish on your guitar as french polish has a slight yellowish brown tint which might be too strong for your guitar. Also if you use a rag use a lint free cloth like a bed sheet or shirt, definitely not an old t shirt or anything like that as you will get cloth fibres in the polish. I usually put a bit of polish on the rag and then roll the rag up where the polish is so that the rag is moist but not wet. Then apply the polish working in straight lines very gently to get the polish on the instrument. Work so that when the rag touches the instrument it is already moving, ie, don't stop the rag or change direction on the surface but lift it off and touch it down while it is moving. if you ad a little oil while doing this it makes it a bit easier. I use baby oil but it has to be a light oil that evaporates, definitely not boiled linseed oil or any oil used as a base for paints. You could leave it there if the finish is ok as the area is really small, or let it dry a bit and then using a similar method and a bit of oil start to work the polish in a circular motion using more pressure, letting it dry from time to time if it becomes too tacky. light sanding with 1200 grit and oil at this stage is ok if it doesn't stay smooth. It will not look shiny at this stage and could have a few swirls in it but not to worry. Lastly you need to spirit off. I have found the best method it to let the polish dry for a day maybe, and then sand lightly if need be and get the rag just very slightly damp with alcohol and again using light strokes in a straight line take the oil and haze off the surface. When finished it should look shiny but not quite as glassy as the original finish as it is a natural finish. It can however be blended quite well into the original finish so the join will be hard to see. Sorry for the lengthy explanation, it is just that I found french polishing hard to get to grips with and had to find a way I liked through trial and error. Of course there are probably other methods that work and it is really a technique that involves quite a lot of feel and is quite satisfying to do. The great thing is that if you really mess things up you can take the whole lot off with alcohol and start again! whatever you decide good luck!