The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    This might be a bad question, but I can't seem to find a Gibson ES-175 passed 2016. Is that the last year Gibson produced the ES-175?

    The sites I have checked so far are Sweetwater, Guitar Center and Wildwood. I'm going to buy used but I'm afraid if the guitar is discontinued the price in the second hand market will go up before I'm able to buy one.

    Thanks.

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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneofthe
    This might be a bad question, but I can't seem to find a Gibson ES-175 passed 2016. Is that the last year Gibson produced the ES-175?

    The sites I have checked so far are Sweetwater, Guitar Center and Wildwood. I'm going to buy used but I'm afraid if the guitar is discontinued the price in the second hand market will go up before I'm able to buy one.

    Thanks.
    My "2016" model figured 175 was made in 2017. Are they making any more in 2018? Probably a special order item like an L-5 or Super 400.

    While fewer new ones being made might put upward pressure on used prices, the fact that each year, there are fewer jazz guitarists will put downward pressure along with a coming glut of used examples as older jazz guitarists/guitar hoarders die and their guitars hit the used market.

  4. #3

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    2017 for at least now was the last year 175's were manufactured. They are currently not available even on a special order basis.
    I am sure they will be back in production when Gibson's financial woes are behind them and the new Memphis location plant is fully up and running. Hopefully 2019. This summer will tell the future of Gibson.

  5. #4

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    So it ’was’ the longest continuously made archtop guitar. 68 years, not bad. But should have been longer!

    I have not made scientific analysis but my impression is that the Ebay askings of ES175’s have dropped a bit during last months. From $3000+ to $2500+.

  6. #5

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    I never thought I'd see the day 175's were no longer made, in my lifetime.
    Just a great Jazz guitar.
    Joe D

  7. #6

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    Literally, the guitar used on most of my favorite jazz guitar recordings.

    Bummer. Although, if I had the $ for one, I'd buy used anyway.

  8. #7

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    Ouch! I have watched other musical instrument markets that mattered to me--e.g., pianos, organs--just roll right up and disappear, for all intents and purposes. It happens as demographics work against those markets.

    Now, although we may be in the early phase--too early to really tell--guitars may be on the way out. I DON'T think so, but maybe. All my kids play guitar, but how could they not? The real test will be to see what happens with my grandchildren's generation.

  9. #8

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    I do wonder if in my lifetime, it'll be hard to find guitar strings or some other weird thing due to the decline of the guitar...

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I do wonder if in my lifetime, it'll be hard to find guitar strings or some other weird thing due to the decline of the guitar...
    The guitar is already in decline and there are more string options than ever available. Basic D’Addarios are cheaper now (adjusted for the $$$) than 35 years ago. Specialty strings are numerous and widely available.

    More and more-better options than ever.

    I do not personally worry about this.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptchristopher3
    The guitar is already in decline and there are more string options than ever available. Basic D’Addarios are cheaper now (adjusted for the $$$) than 35 years ago. Specialty strings are numerous and widely available.

    More and more-better options than ever.

    I do not personally worry about this.
    We need to figure out how to get Thomastik Infield Strings cheaper here in the US.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I do wonder if in my lifetime, it'll be hard to find guitar strings or some other weird thing due to the decline of the guitar...


    No but the sizing will change just like it does over the years with womens clothes.

    .10's will be labeled as heavy strings.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Ouch! I have watched other musical instrument markets that mattered to me--e.g., pianos, organs--just roll right up and disappear, for all intents and purposes. It happens as demographics work against those markets.

    Now, although we may be in the early phase--too early to really tell--guitars may be on the way out. I DON'T think so, but maybe. All my kids play guitar, but how could they not? The real test will be to see what happens with my grandchildren's generation.
    My kids were well supplied with musical equipment and encouragement, as are their children; the great-grandchildren are not going to lack in opportunities, either.

    The hiatus in 175 production is in part due to the uncertainty re: Gibson's future (which, IMO is being milked by the business press for clicks and giggles); the slump in prices is half correction/half CME blowout fallout; in the long term, I believe production will resume, adjusted for a more realistic relationship to demand.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    My kids were well supplied with musical equipment and encouragement, as are their children; the great-grandchildren are not going to lack in opportunities, either.

    The hiatus in 175 production is in part due to the uncertainty re: Gibson's future (which, IMO is being milked by the business press for clicks and giggles); the slump in prices is half correction/half CME blowout fallout; in the long term, I believe production will resume, adjusted for a more realistic relationship to demand.
    Indeed, though if no 175's are produced this year it will mark the end of a very long run (1949-2017). Should you be wrong and if no 175's are ever again produced by Gibson, the 175 will still remain one of the most iconic electric guitars of all time. I would think it is right behind the Les Paul, SG, 335, Strat and Tele.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    Indeed, though if no 175's are produced this year it will mark the end of a very long run (1949-2017). Should you be wrong and if no 175's are ever again produced by Gibson, the 175 will still remain one of the most iconic electric guitars of all time. I would think it is right behind the Les Paul, SG, 335, Strat and Tele.
    Indeed, ending that run would be a shame. I think part of the situation with the 175 is its iconic status, which is another way of saying it has been, for good or ill, typecast.

    Back in the eighties, when I was making bank playing dance music, I bought a 175 for $350. Apparently the 1st owner wanted to be Ted Nugent and it didn't work out. His (completely voluntary) loss, my gain. But.

    Every time I brought it to a gig, I would get complaints - not from the audiences, who kept on dancing, but from some of the band members, who of course, are always happy to express their opinions, however ill-informed. "You should play the Les Paul" or the Strat, or the 345 yada yada blah blah.

    The fact is, set up with a set of 0.010 - 0.046 plain-G strings, the clean tone of the 175 was pretty much indistinguishable in context from the other Gibsons. It just didn't look the part. News flash: Audiences. do. not. care.

    I really believe we are one or two 175-playing singer/songwriters away from a resurgence in interest of one of the most practical and toneful electric guitars of all time.

    We should also keep in mind that the future of guitar growth is Female, African, Asian, off-world, you name it.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbie
    So it ’was’ the longest continuously made archtop guitar. 68 years, not bad. But should have been longer!

    I have not made scientific analysis but my impression is that the Ebay askings of ES175’s have dropped a bit during last months. From $3000+ to $2500+.

    I thought the L-4 was the winner of that award? They've been around since 1911.
    Although comparing a 1911 L-4 to a 2017/18 L4-CES is really apples to oranges. You really couldn't have two more different guitars.

  17. #16

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    The L4 stopped being made between the 60s and the 90s.

  18. #17

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    What about the L5? 1923-2017

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep

    No but the sizing will change just like it does over the years with womens clothes.

    .10's will be labeled as heavy strings.
    I read an interview with Ted Nugent where he said something like "I don't use those skinny weakling strings like most guys. I use a standard set starting with a 10.
    Last edited by Woody Sound; 03-22-2018 at 09:06 AM.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    I read an interview with Ted Nugent where he said something like "I don't use those skinny weakling strings like most guys. I use a standard set starting with a 10.
    A real man's man.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    What about the L5? 1923-2017
    Oh c'mon GT, you know the L5 of 1923 and the L5 of now are the same in name only. One was a 16" acoustic guitar, the other a 17" electric. The flowerpot inlay is about the only thing that is the same. They really are different "models."

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    I read an interview with Ted Nugent where he said something like "I don't use those skinny weakling strings like most guys. I use a standard set starting with a 10.
    If you calc the tension of a 10-46 set over the “nominal” 23 1/2 scale of a Byrdland, it is a decidedly Nancy-Boy setup.

    No disrespect to anyone named Nancy intended.

    Nothing wrong with very light tension strings, but sort of moronic to throw stones having no idea of the actual situation.

    A .010 on a Byrdland will be at about 13.5 pounds of tension, this extremely close to the tension of an .009 on a Telecaster.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptchristopher3
    sort of moronic to throw stones having no idea of the actual situation.
    Kinda defines Ted in one sentence, no?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    Kinda defines Ted in one sentence, no?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    He is an emotional guy, who maybe looks to the actual underlying situation less often than may be optimal.

    Regarding guitars, I feel (emotively,...) that this is often an issue.

    I am not a Ted fan (musically or otherwise), but I take what I consider to be his folly as a way to look at my own approach to the instruments and try to improve.

    *******************

    I have heard players get incredible sound out of plinky strings. So it is not always so clear as it may seem.

    But yeah, the Nuge is pretty silly regarding guitars. (And I am a Byrdland fan/owner.)

    ALL in my opinion.

  25. #24

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    And in my opinion:

    When obscure guitarists trash talk successful guitarists on internet forums, they make fools of themselves

  26. #25

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    Rlrhett,

    Do you run constant thickness on the carbon tops? How do you brace considering no vibration speed difference laterally vs. longitudinally?

    Interesting designs.