The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I recently refretted one of my 1959 ES-125T's with stainless and did a comparison with my other all original with nickel frets. Curious what others think about any tonal differences. Thanks
    Last edited by Chris Whiteman; 03-15-2018 at 01:22 AM.

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  3. #2

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    Just the tiniest bit brighter with the stainless. I don't even know if "brighter" is the right word...maybe a bit more "pop" on the notes.

    FYI I had my main laminate jazz box refretted with stainless frets after I'd owned it for about two years, with the work done by the original builder. I didn't notice any tonal difference.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolvinny
    Just the tiniest bit brighter with the stainless. I don't even know if "brighter" is the right word...maybe a bit more "pop" on the notes.

    FYI I had my main laminate jazz box refretted with stainless frets after I'd owned it for about two years, with the work done by the original builder. I didn't notice any tonal difference.
    I agree with you. Very minimal tonal difference to my ears. I really like the idea of not having to ever refret it again. My guitar repair guy has guitars that come back 15 years after being refret with stainless, and the frets are in great shape.

  5. #4

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    Nice playing! Your brace of 125s presents a (surely rare) opportunity for this sort of comparison. IMHO whatever slight difference there might be sonically (inaudible, from my perspective) would surely be lost in a live situation. Both instruments sure sound fine on their own. Certainly decreased fret wear is a huge point for SS. I'd say you are a lucky guy!

  6. #5

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    Great demo.

    Indeed, while they feel different, the sound difference is about the same as if someone in the audience took off their sweater, or the curtains on a window were opened. Slight difference at most. And a minuscule difference (if any) compared to a minor change to the shape of the fret crown.

    In my opinion.

    Thanks for the post.

  7. #6

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    I don't believe any two guitars are identical. The only way to really tell would be an A/B both before and after the refret. Another possible difference in sound, if any, would be that one has new frets and the other has worn frets, possibly different heights, and so the material might not be solely responsible for all of it. It's a complicated, and possibly subjective, subject. But it is another data point, so thanks for the comparison.

  8. #7

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    I know that the stainless frets I've had/have just feel better. Smoother or something, can't really explain it.

  9. #8

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    I did stainless on my 63 175. The frets look new all the time and feel great. But string wear has increased (you pay one way or another for all things in this life) and acoustically, I hear a slight ping on the unwound strings (It does not come through the amp).

    I would advise against stainless on an acoustic guitar. For an electric, they are a good option.

  10. #9

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    I used my good headphones for your demo, Chris. The difference is subtle to me, but I think the nickel frets seem slightly more mellow and less "metallic" in sound (but in a blind test, I'm not sure I could easily tell them apart).
    My favorite fretwire these days is the Jescar Gold Evo copper alloy (or the Luthier's Mercantile equivalent) which seem a compromise between nickel and stainless in terms of durability and sound. It also looks great on a guitar with gold hardware.
    Thanks for the great demo!

  11. #10

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    Hard for me to tell them apart, both sound great, and great playing BTW!!

  12. #11

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    I hear an oh so slightly snappier pick attack on the SS frets, although such a difference could also be attributed to the p'up, by using a different alloy composition on the screws and slugs and/or a magnet change.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I don't believe any two guitars are identical. The only way to really tell would be an A/B both before and after the refret. Another possible difference in sound, if any, would be that one has new frets and the other has worn frets, possibly different heights, and so the material might not be solely responsible for all of it. It's a complicated, and possibly subjective, subject. But it is another data point, so thanks for the comparison.
    I wish I had done a before and after comparison, but I didn't think about it. They do sound different to me now compared to when they both had nickel. But then again It's hard for me to be 100% objective without having a recording to A/B.

  14. #13

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    When I hear you play without watching the video, I can't tell the difference between the guitars. I would be surprised if many people could tell the difference blind.

  15. #14

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    Another possible difference is the electronics. Pots and fixed resistors aren't identical, and made to a rather loose tolerance, sometimes plus or minus 10%, so even guitars that are identical in every other way can sound different when amplified, and as I said, none are completely identical. I can't say frets don't make a difference, but I do think it's a small difference.

  16. #15

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    It's subtle, one might here more of a difference when played purely acoustically(?).
    I seem to hear just enough difference in the attack to prefer the nickel one. But could just also be prejudice.
    (Whenever I played a guitar with SS-frets in the past I didn't like the attack too much, the little "zing" it seems to add).

    Thanks for the video!

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klatu
    When I hear you play without watching the video, I can't tell the difference between the guitars. I would be surprised if many people could tell the difference blind.
    Ditto. If there is a difference, it isn't worth worrying about.

  18. #17

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    I amazed that you managed to get TWO 125Ts in such good shape. These must have spent most of their lives in cases under the bed.

  19. #18

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    Bottom line......they both sound great. I agree with the above statements. Nice video....thank you.

  20. #19

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    I also think that sonic difference is too small to be of consideration. I may be imagining it, but I feel a slight difference when comparing the ss to nickel. Nickel feels a little warmer and changes to warm up a bit after playing. SS stays the same temperature. Bends are a little smoother with ss. My Strat and Tele partscasters have SS. My archtops and others have nickel.

  21. #20

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    Wow..never knew P 90s could sound so deep and warm.

    Barely any difference in tone and this is the kind of Guitar which would show differences clearly.

    Even safer bet might be the EVO Golds ..but had you
    refretted with even Jescar Nickel ..there might be a tiny difference just due to the different mass of the new wire compared to the old.

    Is the Stainless any easier to fret or play( nice feel and playing -and both Guitars sound great .." classic " and smooth but articulate ).

    What size and brand of fretwire in Stainless was used and did they use a little Cyanoacrylate if you know.

    Just thinking it came out very well so good reference for others..

    I always wondered if stainless would make a
    Warmth difference on a very warm Guitar here's a good answer- barely if at all in this case.

    However in my case I often swing like an aggressive Jazz Guitarist but on longer notes at phrase ends am more Iike Taylor , not Martin , Mick so nickel gives me bloom haven' t played many Guirars with stainless and 1 with EVO ...
    I have a neck that I need to have replaced on an old Carvin so I am safer with the same Jescar Nickels
    to preserve the deep dark sound it has .

    New builds I would use Nickel or EVO - my quirk is that if it sounds dark deep unplugged I won't need to roll back the tone knob

    Thanks for posting .
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 08-24-2019 at 07:33 PM.

  22. #21

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    Thanks Chris! This helped me decide-Im staying with nickel. The steel is definitely brighter. Nice playing! All the best-Tony Scally

  23. #22
    I realize this is an ancient thread… However… I’ve become a devout follower of Mr. Whitemans page. He’s undoubtably one of my favorite guitar players if not , “favorite”

    It’s interesting that I also have a 125 and I have considered using stainless as a refret. I have them on my L5 and the playability is smooth as glass.… Yeah I feel the “pop” of stainless but that is nothing next to the smoothness The stainless fret produces.
    any guitar I pick up after the L5 with the stainless frets… a nickel Fret guitar just feels “cold/ flat” in comparison. And on the 330 reissue… It feels like ….”drag”

    My 330 re-issue is pretty much my go to because of that fat ass neck.. but it has high nickel Frets. The vintage 125 has next to nothing frets and I prefer that. I grew up with that on almost every guitar I ever played… cause I’m ancient… And all your tone is in your finger board and neck Wood. Not all that metal… Save that for Steve Vai and Yngwie Malmsteen

    I mean I enjoy that too… but if we’re talking archtops… It’s all about the wood baby
    am I right? … I know I ain’t wrong

    so the stainless you would think contradicts everything, but actually it’s a nice smooth flow. As long as it’s the lowest stainless steel fret… i’m in Jack

    question is what’s the lowest stainless steel fret available? Do they make them vintage size? Because if they do I’m putting that shit on everything

  24. #23

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    I would be putting SS on any guitar from now on after I did it to Epi Dot Studio that badly needed a refret. Any minUte tone difference that might be in there could be compensated, while not having to deal with the fret wear is priceless.

  25. #24

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    I love SS frets. I’ll take them whenever I get the chance. Yea, I hear a touch of ‘ping’, but you really have to be listening for it. I love the feel and the long life. Sign me up!

  26. #25

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    Not gonna lie, I think I preferred the SS in the clip.

    I had a refret on a tele (setup for blues/rock/bending/vibrato, etc). I very much liked the result. Whatever change in tone there was, was more than made up for by improvements in playability.