Peerless Imperial Drama

[Little Jay]

If I were you I would go to the music store and try out an Epiphone ES-175 (or better: a Gibson ES-175) to see if the sound you are lookjng for is indeed that of those guitars. Take your own guitar as well. Even take another guitarist with you and let him play the instruments. Everybody is unique: it may be you just sound different on thise instruments (then you would need to change your touch and technique).

Reading thru the thread I think changing your amp settings or even your amp to produce a tone with more midrange may help you as well. In your amp: mids on 10, bass and treble much lower (as suggested before).

Maybe you can post a recording of your playing and a picture of your amp settings; I think it would help the discussion.

[Little Jay]

Was the pickup routed at/near the end of the fretboard versus farther back towards the bridge? Further back will affect the tone.

This is an important one, as I recently found out! Which also makes me wonder: where do you pick the strings? Closer to neck or close to the bridge?

[Doctor Jeff]

I hope you find something that works for you. That is a beautiful guitar--like other Peerless, should be well made. I have a Peerless Sunset. The stock pickup is an Epiphone Classic 57, which is not as bright or as well defined as the Gibson version, but which produces a warm, mellow tone that is perfect for the music I play.

I concur with others the Classic 57 is a great pickup--if the combination of strings, pickup height and maybe a TOM bridge don't get the sound you want, you may not get it from this guitar.

Might try a different amp too--I have an "acoustic" amp--the Fishman Artist--but the controls allow almost infinite adjustment of tone, especially in the midrange, so you can bring out the acoustic qualities or dial them back as needed.

Guitars are like, ahem, women. Each one is beautiful in its own way and has its own personality. It can be a futile struggle to make the guitar into something it's not.

[Doctor Jeff]

It just occurs to me that you have one of the cardinal symptoms of GAS--not finding the tone you want in your head.

As a doctor, I advise you that there is only one effective treatment: another guitar!

[cosmic gumbo]

It just occurs to me that you have one of the cardinal symptoms of GAS--not finding the tone you want in your head.

As a doctor, I advise you that there is only one effective treatment: another guitar!

Plus amplifier.

[sgosnell]

Plus a dozen or so sets of different strings, and about that many picks, and...

[jayjazzy]

try switching your bridge with the TOM (tune-o-matic) bridge from your other guitars.

regarding pickups and amp, you want less acoustic tone and more electric tone. to me that means more midrange and more EQ manipulation from your amp. Setting your amp flat is not ideal. You want the character of the amp's midrange to come out more. The acoustic sound you are referring to sounds like you have a scooped EQ setting either naturally from the guitar, the pickup, or because your amp settings are flat.

if you are going to choose another pickup look at the resonant peak and inductance reading of the pickup, not just the DC resistance. the SD Lover pickups (according to the SD site) have a scooped midrange - again not what you want. If you don't want to make the wrong choice contact the pickup maker directly. Bare Knuckle and Lollar would be happy to answer your questions directly and point you in the right direction with their products.

BigToe, thank you for your reply. I tried all your amp suggestions but not the TOM switch, yet.

I believe that this scooped EQ of the guitar should be the main reason for this. I also followed your suggestion and sent an e-mail to Ben at Bare Knuckle which advised me with a new Stormy Monday to balance the guitar tone. It’s ordered, let’s see the results then.

Thanks

[jayjazzy]

Sorry, but it's not clear to me if my word of advice helped or not to solve your problem?

If yes, you're most welcome. If not, then you just don't like the p'up and it's gotta be replaced.

I personally don't like it, but you might: try a Di Marzio 36th Ann. neck.

Another contender is the Lollar High Wind Imperial neck. Not the cheapest, but I think it might be just what the doctor ordered!

HTH,

LtKojak, it helped to male sure I was making things correct. I’m trying the pickup replacement, ordered a Bare Knuckle for now. Let’s see!

[jayjazzy]

Can you link to an example or two of the type of sound you want? That would save a lot of time and speculation, possibly avoiding barking up the wrong tree.

If what you want is the ES-175 type sound, you're probably not going to get it from this guitar. That sound comes from a laminate 16" guitar with a deep body; there is something about the ES-175 that no other guitar quite gets there.

My own case in point. When I bought my current main guitar in 2006, a 17" carvetop in the Benedetto style made by forum member Matt Cushman, the sound I was chasing in my head was Jim Hall early 60s with his ES-175 with a P90 and his Gibson GA-50 amp. I didn't really understand the difference in tone that different guitar designs achieve. The Cushman came with a Johnny Smith style floating pickup. It was basically completely different from a 175. My amp was an early 70s Fender Pro Reverb silverface. You can guess that the tone I was getting was far away from the tone in my head.

I spent years trying different pickups, different amps, different pots and caps, different cables, different strings, different picks... it never sounded like an ES-175. It played wonderfully- easy up and down the neck, comfortable, really liked the acoustic sound- and looked really nice. Fantastic guitar, could not have been happier unplugged. What I finally realized was that the guitar sounded great electrically on its own terms. It was listening to Peter Bernstein on his Ziedler, in particular, that opened my ears up to the beauty of the wide, pianistic, dynamic sound that this guitar produces. I stopped having to find a different sound and embraced the one I already have.

The moral of the story is that your guitar may already sound great, even if it doesn't sound like an ES-175. But if *that* is the sound you want, nothing other than a Gibson ES-175 is really going to get it. Probably a late 80s one with mahogany neck, back and sides and the somewhat thicker top of those years.

In the meantime: play with the pickup height, turn the treble and bass knobs on your Fender amp to 0 - 0.5 and turn the volume up a bit to compensate, use a heavy pick made from a slightly soft material like the D'Andrea Pro Plec. Running the guitar volume knob at 6-8 will cut some of the highs (unless the guitar has a treble bleed circuit, which you should remove), then the tone knob is just to taste. Turn the amp volume up and pick softly (this is the Jim Hall trick for his tone- use the power of the amp to be able to play more softly on the guitar). Pick by the end of the neck. Round-core pure nickel wrapped strings such as Pyramids sound warmer. Also Jim Hall used light strings like 10s or 11s, often with a plain 3rd, and picked lighter.

Cunamara, thank you for your words. I would say that the type of sound I want is Kenny, Wes, sound. I think it’s the most common jazz sound, so not that difficult.

I’m also getting to that conclusion but I will try one more time with a new pickup.

Your story could be mine if I continue with my sound chase and it also happens to me, my teacher says that my Peerless sounds good but you know...it’s not the good I would like to!

I have some days to try all your suggestions before installing the new pickup up, but I must say that I’m a big flatwound fan so roundwounds for me won’t be an option for now. And I like 012 , I can’t deal very well with thinner strings.

Thanks for all your advice and time.

[jayjazzy]

Was the pickup routed at/near the end of the fretboard versus farther back towards the bridge? Further back will affect the tone.

Close to the neck, just like a Peerlss Imperial Custom that has an humbucker fitted from the factory. Thank you

[jayjazzy]

If I were you I would go to the music store and try out an Epiphone ES-175 (or better: a Gibson ES-175) to see if the sound you are lookjng for is indeed that of those guitars. Take your own guitar as well. Even take another guitarist with you and let him play the instruments. Everybody is unique: it may be you just sound different on thise instruments (then you would need to change your touch and technique).

Reading thru the thread I think changing your amp settings or even your amp to produce a tone with more midrange may help you as well. In your amp: mids on 10, bass and treble much lower (as suggested before).

Maybe you can post a recording of your playing and a picture of your amp settings; I think it would help the discussion.

Little Jay,

My teacher has a Gibson ES 175 and I also own a L5 CES so I’m pretty familiar with the sound I would like to have. We also switch guitars now and then.

I will try to record something this coming weekend.

Thank you!

[jayjazzy]

I hope you find something that works for you. That is a beautiful guitar--like other Peerless, should be well made. I have a Peerless Sunset. The stock pickup is an Epiphone Classic 57, which is not as bright or as well defined as the Gibson version, but which produces a warm, mellow tone that is perfect for the music I play.

I concur with others the Classic 57 is a great pickup--if the combination of strings, pickup height and maybe a TOM bridge don't get the sound you want, you may not get it from this guitar.

Might try a different amp too--I have an "acoustic" amp--the Fishman Artist--but the controls allow almost infinite adjustment of tone, especially in the midrange, so you can bring out the acoustic qualities or dial them back as needed.

Guitars are like, ahem, women. Each one is beautiful in its own way and has its own personality. It can be a futile struggle to make the guitar into something it's not.

Thank you Doctor. I totally agree with you!