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I just came into possession of this guitar, and I'm truly thrilled. It's a player-grade guitar with what I think is reproduction hardware. It is reported to be a '47, but the label is torn inside obscuring the serial number. You can still see a faint L-7 on the "style" line on what remains of the label. Also the neck was either re-finished or replaced, so there are no obvious markings on the back of the head stock.
The bridge that was in the case was brand new and hadn't been properly fitted to the top, and the slots were cut very very wrongly. I put a different bridge on just to get it to play and discovered that the the G note at the third fret on the high E string is completely dead. It actually rings the tone a half step above the third fret. All the other notes play clearly though the action is so low that there is a bit of buzz all over.
I took the guitar to a local luthier today who opined that the neck had been completely replaced. He said the dead note was due to a drop in the neck near the nut, though I could not make out the curve he saw. My thought was it needed a refret, since the frets all appear low and thin to me. There is some wear on the frets, but they are pretty level and clean so I imagined they had simply been leveled too many times, but he tried the truss rod, said it wouldn't help, and said the fingerboard would need to be planed. He was also suspect that the guitar was an L-7, though neither of us had made out the L-7 on the label at that point.
As to his thought that the neck had been completely replaced, I must say that the neck looks brand spanking new. The refinish job, if it was a refinish, was a darn good one. The neck is beefy, which a '47 apparently should be. Who knows? The neck was reset and the bridge is at max height almost, to get the action to stop buzzing.
There several small repaired cracks: 2 in the sides of the guitar, one on the back and one tiny crack (less than a half inch) in the top. Overall, the soundbox appears to be in very good shape.
I just wanted to share my happiness at this point. I absolutely love this guitar and in particular the dark burst. I can't wait to get it playing properly! I am not a collector in the typical sense of the term, so the reproduction stuff and the repairs don't bother me much. I'm just so happy and can't wait to hear it's true tone when it gets set up properly.
Does anyone have any thoughts about neck? Two issues I am curious about - first, is it the original neck just refinished, or a new neck made to look like a vintage L-7 neck? And a bit more importantly, what needs to be done to get it playing? The luthier I saw today tried to explain to me the way the truss rod works in this guitar, and why it wouldn't help, but I couldn't understand him so plan to learn about it momentarily. He indicated he wasn't equipped to do whatever work he seemed to think it needed.
I'll post a bunch of pics in a bit.
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02-19-2018 06:44 PM
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Look carefully through the treble-side F-hole and see if you can see a number stamped on the inside-back of the guitar. that would be the FON, "Factory Order Number." Many old Gibsons have these and they can give you a good fix on the date. It can be very faint, but with the right light and angle, you'll be able to read it. There are sources online that can help you decode the FON.
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Thanks for that info. No FON that I can see but I've only spent 5 minutes looking.
Any opinions on if this looks like a '47 L-7 neck, chime in. There is a hole on the side of the neck where a pick guard attached. I ordered a black reproduction pick guard and lower bracket, but I am not sure how the upper part of the pick guard attached to the guitar at the neck.
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A few more pictures of the neck.
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and more
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I can’t comment on the originality of the neck for sure, but everything seems to fit the suggested era, script logo, label. Also it all fits with an L7 which is what it definitely looks like the label remnant says to me.
If you’re looking for the FON, they can be faint and just a small amount of dust can make it virtually invisible if not removed.
Might a different bridge that’s a little taller help? Otherwise, it seems that the neck angle may be off. The action looks ridiculously low.
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I just re-educated myself about the basic mechanics of a truss rod and now I understand what the guy was telling me earlier - essentially that there was no tension on the truss rod. Also, the width of the neck at the nut is 1 3/4".
In any event I have an appointment with another luthier. The guy today seemed more intent on giving me an appraisal of its collector value, which I already know is low. What I was looking for, however, was someone who would be capable of and enjoy helping me make it a good player, in which he showed little interest.
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Beautiful guitar, congratulations!
I am a sucker for this sort of "full-figured, mature" guitar.
Notice that the fingerboard is elevated. Room for a nice 'floater.'
Best of luck to both of you.
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Not completely sure about the neck. It looks period correct though and has the all features of a Gibson neck including the bevel where the peghead fans out and the raised fingerboard tongue. It could well be.
Also the frets have nibs which many don't even bother to recreate when they refret a guitar, so I seem to think that the fretboard and frets could be original.
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I see you are in NY, which is a big place... If you are near NYC and northern NJ, I can refer you to a good luthier in Fair Lawn NJ who has worked on my vintage Gibson archtops. He is in demand but knows his stuff. He has worked on 2 L-5s, an L-12, and 2 ES=175s for me over the years among other non-archtops.
You say the saddle is most of the way up already. However, the saddle looks too tall for the guitar. These late 40s examples usually have shallow saddles from the factory. That would make a big difference in the amount of adjustment you have available. I have two 1947 Gibsons so I can attest to this.
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That is definitely an L7 and the logo etc. is consistent with approximately 1947. I have a 1947 L7 and it is one of the best sounding guitars I have ever owned. I would be hesitant to have the fingerboard planed before you try a few other things. As ThatRhythmMan suggested, you should get the right type of bridge on it first and see just how high it needs to be cranked, to determine if the neck angle is ok. It sounds like the luthier believes there is a slight overbow. Not sure what gauge of strings you have on it, but a heavier gauge may help correct that problem. Also, if the guitar has been stored without tension (missing strings, no strings, strings tuned down, etc.) then it may improve after you have had it strung up for a while. If it straightens out enough, maybe a fret dress is all it will need. I agree with Burrellesque, that those frets appear to be original so it would be nice to keep them if at all possible. When I got mine, it had been neglected for quite some time, but I was able to get it in perfect playing condition without doing major work. I attached a pic of mine (they look nearly identical).
Keith
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The logo and inlay look different to me. How much variation was there in how those were done?
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The neck is definitely 47 at the latest judging by the logo. It’s possible that it got a factory refinish later in its life, when Gibson was using a darker tint for their brown mahogany necks. The action looks quite low, but it’s hard to judge neck angle when you don’t have the original bridge.
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Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Kieth your L-7 is gorgeous and I appreciate your experience. I will definitely tread lightly when approaching the repairs and won’t go with a luthier who doesn’t share my feelings in that regard. Thanks for the reference for the luthier. I’m in Albany which is within spittin distance.
Im leaning towards believing it’s the original or at least a real gibson neck. The alternatives are possible but in my mind unlikely. The luthier yesterday seemed to suggest that someone could have built a new counterfeit neck but if that happened they did a bang up job complete with stripped out pick guard bracket hole.
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aside from the refin the neck looks original.
truss rod cover isn't original [wouldn't have a white border]
good luck w/ the guitar....
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If those tuners are original, you should sell them for $500 to a rock guitarist to put on their Les Paul.
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A pic of the underside of the mounted pick guard would be very helpful. I can’t find such a like online. I notice some have visible screws in the top of the pick guard and some don’t. How is it secured without screws? Hot glue?
I recut the string notches in the saddle and put on new strings last night - elixir polyweb 13s. This morning no improvement in the dead note.
I’ll get a recording of it up so you guys can hear it. Sounds like memories ha ha.
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The pickguard is mounted in two places. One is by the neck (upper mount), and the other is on the side from a metal bracket (lower mount).
Originally Posted by ChiefMegaShear
The lower mount is the same on all gibsons. There's an acryllic or plastic block that gets glued onto the pickguard and the metal bracket screws into that.
The upper mount changed at some point (late 30s maybe). In the earlier versions, a screw was driven through the pickguard into a wooden block and then into the top. In the later version, the pickguard is glued to another plastic block and a screw is driven through that block into the neck.
For trivia's sake, on vintage Epiphones, there's no glue, just screws. So the screws are visible on the Epiphones unlike the Gibsons. But the Epiphone device is easier to install and adjust on the fly.
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Yours probably would have looked like this.
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Here is a picture of the headstock that was on the 1947 L-7 that I used to have. IIRC in 1947 they went to a slanted logo and used up the rest of the fat letter blanks. In 1948 it was the new letters on a slant. Since yours isn't slanted, I am thinking that it is maybe a 1946 or earlier. But also the script seems too small on your guitar - which makes me think it is a fake Gibson neck. Weird!
My guitar:
Your guitar
Last edited by Easy2grasp; 02-20-2018 at 01:33 PM. Reason: remarks on script size
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How do you tell if they are original tuners? Fellow yesterday said they were prob kluson reproductions. they do not look like anything I have found for sale currently so to me they look real.
Although I’d be thrilled to have someone covet my tuners, if I have the originals I’ll keep em for sure. The only reason I’m not a collector is I can’t afford to be.
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My logo is small. And flat. I wish I had a bigger logo ha ha.
Others have mentioned the logo. I don’t know enough to know what’s what with that. But I’m going to learn. I love a good guitar mystery.
edit: my logo is also different than Kieth’s ‘47.
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usually the prewar script logo is a thicker font than post war.
the transition from straight to slanted is '47, so you'll see guitars w/both styles from that year
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Those are "no-line" Klusons, and are definitely old, and probably original to the guitar. Originally Posted by ChiefMegaShear
Logo placement and quality can vary on old Gibsons.
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Good explanation here: Kluson Deluxe Tuners 1940s to 1960s used on Fender and Gibson Guitars - Vintage Guitars Info
There are decent replicas out there that work better than the originals, and are not expensive. I am not sure about the mortality of those vintage keystones, and would be tempted to install replicas and put the originals away (are they just as likely to fall apart stored in a drawer? I have no idea). For a player L7 that is never going to be 100%, I would be really tempted to sell the tuners if you can confirm they are the real deal. Whoever refinished the neck probably harvested the original tuners, though.
The tailpiece looks like chrome, which would not be correct for your guitar. Archtop.com sells aged nickel replicas, but they are not cheap; you are fine IMHO.
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