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What you do you think of bossa nova played on an electric archtop? It definitely takes some technique changes compared to a nylon string (of course the opposite is also true). I looked around for threads discussing this topic and found zilch. Much ado about nothing and I should carry on playing?
Last edited by rpguitar; 02-17-2018 at 10:57 AM.
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02-17-2018 10:00 AM
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It sounds mighty fine to my ears! In my gigging days, my partner and I used to do an "Ipanema/Desifinado" combo on an Epi Broadway and my ES-175 which was well received by the public (Bless 'em). The lush and balanced tones of your beautiful WesMo, not to mention your skillful playing, would've knocked 'em dead (so to speak)! Thanks for posting this.
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Where's the melody, RP?
This is a fairly good arrangement for solo guitar, with average execution. I've heard better, mind you.
There's nothing wrong with playing brazilian music with an archtop. It all comes to the execution.
Brazilian music has an inherent "vibe", for the lack of a better word, that's difficult to articulate for european conservatory-educated players, like myself. It comes easier to Jazz-educated players, though; as long as they can "feel it".
Yeah, it's hard to describe.
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Nice sounding guitar ( and player! )
One thing I hear is the balance between thumb ( bass ) and harmony is different on the electric vs what I'd expect from an acoustic/nylon along with the harmony being brighter
They sound like flatwounds which also changes the overall sound a bit.
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I love the sound. This past weekend we had a string faculty recital where I teach and I played How Insensitive as a duet with a colleague. He was playing an ES-350 and I was using my AF-207 and I thought the sound was great with two electric archtops and have always liked the sound you can get playing bossas on them. Sure the nylon string is more traditional but if you are playing traditional rhythms and voicings then I don’t think it is too far away from the bossa sound that it is a problem (assuming that someone wants a traditional bossa sound).
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Yeah Kojak, I have seen that arrangement and it's extremely impressive, not "fairly good." My video does not represent a chord melody arrangement. It's based on the Tom & Elis recording of great fame from 1974 where the singers handle the melody, not the guitar.
CK74, thanks! I'm messing with my various archtops trying to find one that takes the least amount of extra care to play this style.
Keith and rio, I think there's not enough of an acoustic brightness or perhaps liveliness to the sound. I hear that when I'm playing but the recording didn't pick it up. Also the tone knob is up halfway, and I should adjust that. You have to play more gently with the steel strings otherwise it's easy to make a mess, and that hampers the percussive element that one gets with a nylon stringed instrument.
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Well, I'll tell ya... I am sure I can play that ADM arrangement - it's not the technical part that's hard. It's the memorization and the subtlety of what changes as the tune progresses.
This song is super misleading in its apparent simplicity. The lyrics hardly have any repetition. The melody has many subtle nuances that are unique to each section, not to mention improvised parts in the famous recordings (that have become part of what we expect to hear). The performer in that video labored over those things and reproduced them in a way that appears deceptively easy. It's not! Why don't you give us your version??
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Of course, and all those subtle differences come from following the articulation of the lyrics. And that's because of the root of what the composition is, which is not to tell a story in the usual, linear way, but rather to describe different images, like in a slide show, that what they have in common is the "mood". That's the main reason of all of those subtle differences of cadence and rhythm applied to the melodic line. And those must've been be written on the sheet music, if I'm not mistaken. So, it's just a matter of remember'em. No specially technically difficult, but rather a lenghty process of memorizing'em all.
Originally Posted by rpguitar
As you seem to be fond of this song, here's the background story and a treasure trove of other information about players, versions. etc. A must read for brazilian music lovers.
Waters of March - Wikipedia
For the record, I've never said I was able to play that solo arrangement I provided, on the contrary, and to prove it I must quote myself: Originally Posted by rpguitar
The performer in that video labored over those things and reproduced them in a way that is deceptively easy. It's not! Why don't you give us your version??
Man, I need to go back to english school; everything I write seems to be misinterpreted.Brazilian music has an inherent "vibe", for the lack of a better word, that's difficult to articulate for european conservatory-educated players, like myself. It comes easier to Jazz-educated players, though; as long as they can "feel it".
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RP,
It's great - so many people, so many guitars, so many styles... Love yours...
Big
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Very Nice sir.
Your version on electric guitar reminded me of a few things about the thumb that I need to keep in mind
In bossa nova, the thumb is always on the Beat and never syncopates, that’s were the fundamental feel is partially derived from.
I’m trying to square this concept with the fundamental premise of flamenco pulgar style —- The thumb is always played apoyando. Not always easy to do!
Thanks for posting Roger.
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If you have the feel for it, bossa nova can be played in any guitar.
The Gibson Wes Montgomery L5 compliments any song.
I can’t wait to get one..
thanks for sharing.
Joe D
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You seemed clear enough to me in that comment. I thought your observations were pertinent. I enjoyed the OP clip a lot too. The musician and the music were a good promotion for the L5 and for more Bossa Nova played on the L5. Joe Pass did a good bit of bossa nova on electric archtops, solo, and it was nice. Not quite as "slippery" as acoustic bossa, but still very nice. Originally Posted by LtKojak
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Roger, now you need to learn how to sing!
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Aguas de Marco has been a long time favorite of mine.
Here's my favorite youtube video lesson of it in portuguese
JoAnne Brackeen recorded it with the great Eddie Gomez on bass.
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Man, this lesson is tremendous! Also, I took a peek at the channel, and there are tons of different music styles, rock and pop songs, even classical music and of course, a healthy dose of different brazilian styles, classic and modern songs as well. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
I've subscribed to the channel. Even if I don't speak portuguese, I understand it sufficiently to enjoy the lessons.
2bornot2bop, I just can't thank you enough for the introduction to this channel. Have one virtual cold beer on me, or two or three or..
Cheers!
Yours very truly,
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Roger,
great timing and gorgeous sound in your rendition. And great timing is all for this kind of music.
Cheers.
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Originally Posted by NSJ
I definitely am aware of that axiom and keep it in mind as a general rule. Sometimes I will play a bass passing tone, though. I'm sure I'm not 100% compliant but it does help anchor one's bossa playing.
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Oh, don't I know it, Jorge! That would be my dream. I can basically pronounce your fine language but I get tripped up when singing. I do practice though. É pau, é pedra, é o fim do caminho...
Originally Posted by LtKojak
I watched the whole thing. It is excellent. He clearly learned the chords from the same version that I studied, although I've seen the original chart in Jobim's own hand, and it has a couple of slight differences or at least variations. One alternate shape I'll share is the Ebm6 that he forms as x6857x. That one may be a bit rough to grab, so try it as xx1312. I won't mention anything else here unless someone is specifically interested (PM me).
Thanks for the responses.
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Here's another lesson. It was the first I learned, and is more traditional.
However I found Julien Bacelar's version I posted above to be more modern rhythmically. Here is the initial video Julien performed of Aguas de Marco with beautiful Brazilian singer Larissa Viana. His rhythmic interpretation of the song created so much interest that TV Cifas produced the 2nd video posted above featuring a break down of his guitar performance with Larissa.
One can click on the gear icon to select subtitles for Julien's instruction, however the translation is not the most accurate.
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Obrigado......
Elis Regina .....pure magic.......A smile that could charm the birds from the trees.
I can never get over how well the Portuguese language fits the samba and the samba fits the language. As good as this English translation is - -and it's good - you could make a case for learning Portuguese just to do justice to this song - and others.
Thx again.
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And I may have actually first heard the song sung by Susannah McCorkle, so here it is.....in Portuguese and English........really got my attention !
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If you care to watch Larissa's body language while singing the song, you'll understand why the brazilians have always been able to be noticed world-wide throughout the years. You just can't fake the passion and comittment to the song that simply exudes through the pores. And the fact that she's easy on the eyes doesn't hurt either... Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
I didn't know who Julien was until now and he really stands out as somebody that's so gracious and capable that even the difficult things he does, he makes'em look as if it was the simplest thing in the world. And I think that's the time to give it to Roger. After I've seen the video, I've tried a little bit and I must say, I grossly underestimated the effort you need to apply to learn this particular song. He WAS right. It's NOT as simple as Julien makes it look. And boy, did I learn this the hard way! Crash and burn, anyone?
If you like brazilian music, you just MUST look for Ivan Lins' music. To me, he's the quintaessential representative of the best brazilian music composed in the last forty years.
George Benson, Quincy Jones, James ingram, Lee Ritenour and Bob james, are just a few I remember from the top of my head that made internationally famous some of his compositions.Last edited by LtKojak; 02-19-2018 at 04:05 PM.
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The video with Elis Regina and Jobim in the studio is beyond delightful. I have watched that 100 times; even my daughters like it. When she cracks up at the end I want to hug the stuffing out of her.
Over the weekend I ran across a YouTube containing just audio outtakes from their recording. You can hear them banter in Portuguese with each other, practicing and confirming if certain notes were correct from Jobim's perspective, and so on. At one point he calls her by name (pronounced "ELL-eesh") which is charming.
Also it is great practice to play along and try to remember the progression of the changes. There are a few repeating chord sequences (A, B, C etc.), but the order they follow is baffling. I have it written out but my brain refuses to store it.
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GREAT thread. My favorite Jobim tune. Roger, thanks for putting up your L-5 Wes/Waters of March clip.
This is Eliane Elias (with Eddie Gomez and Jack DeJohnette) on their take on Aguas de Marco/Augua de Beber. Nice!
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Oh yes, is there any artist who encapsulates that Brazilian groove more than the great Eliane Elias? I've had the privilege of seeing her several times locally. She's pure joy!
Trivia note: Eliane and Randy Brecker were married and had a daughter, Amanda, who is now a singer/songwriter who began recording in about 2011. Who else played on her first recording but the great guitarist Anthony Wilson.
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Aguas de Marco has a Bunch of chords. They are so good, though. Jobim's lyric is pure poetry.
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