The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hello everyone,

    I acquired a 1992 Gibson ES-165 about 6 months ago that I love dearly. It is now my only guitar due to the fact that I sold the other (a flat top acoustic) to fund the purchase of a 1976 Fender Deluxe Reverb. I was curious if any other Gibby 165 owners (or otherwise) could recommend a cheaper, however similar guitar that I could use as a backup. I’m thinking specifically about the neck. 24.75” scale, 1 11/16” nut, bound, and a rather large profile (Gibson called it their “Rounded Jazz Profile” which I would say is similar to a 50s Gibson profile).

    All recommendations would be great! Any country of origin, poly finish, etc are adequate.

    price range: up to, say, $750 USD or so?

    Also, I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts for a general discussion on the concept of a “main” guitar and a “back up” guitar. I’m trying to exercise that concept by only having a single main guitar and something to back it up.
    Attached Images Attached Images Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-55ea3140-a540-485a-ac0d-931352a2fd01-jpg 
    Last edited by orabbit1; 01-12-2018 at 10:05 AM.

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  3. #2

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    I strongly suggest the Epiphone Zephyr Regent Re-Issue. Virtually an exact copy, with mahogany back/sides to boot. About $500 for a pretty nice one. Profits from a pickup swap.

    Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-epiphone-zephyr-regent-5-jpgGuitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-epiphone-zephyr-regent-3-jpg

  4. #3

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    Easy! Seventy-seven Guitars Hawk Standard Deep Body or Hawk Jazz Deep Body.

    Difficult to find used at the moment. Well worth waiting for.

  5. #4

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    You may want to check out the Eastman AR371CE. Most probably not exactly the same but in the ballpark. Same scale length, nut width is a tad wider (but I can't feel the difference compared to a Gibson) and my AR372 has a nice round neck profile like a Gibson.



  6. #5

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    I was in the same position a while back and I bought an Eastman ar371. It is not a clone of the 165, but it's in the domain with enough of its own unique attributes that makes worth keeping (tone, craftsmanship, weight) and playing often. I bought a Hiscox case for it and I don't worry about checking it as baggage when I fly. If the airlines destroy it or if it's stolen, I can buy another one quickly on Reverb for under $700.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by orabbit1
    Hello everyone,

    I acquired a 1992 Gibson ES-165 about 6 months ago that I love dearly. It is now my only guitar due to the fact that I sold the other (a flat top acoustic) to fund the purchase of a 1976 Fender Deluxe Reverb. I was curious if any other Gibby 165 owners (or otherwise) could recommend a cheaper, however similar guitar that I could use as a backup. I’m thinking specifically about the neck. 24.75” scale, 1 11/16” nut, bound, and a rather large profile (Gibson called it their “Rounded Jazz Profile” which I would say is similar to a 50s Gibson profile).

    All recommendations would be great! Any country of origin, poly finish, etc are adequate.

    price range: up to, say, $750 USD or so?

    Also, I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts for a general discussion on the concept of a “main” guitar and a “back up” guitar. I’m trying to exercise that concept by only having a single main guitar and something to back it up.
    Godin has a couple of models in the "Fifth Avenue" range that might work. The neck specs are a tiny bit different from the 165 (1.72" nut, 24.84" scale length), but to me feel about the same. The neck profiles are on the chunky side. Take a look at the Composer (single humbucker) and the Uptown CW (there are 2 x P90 and 2 x humbucker variants), all $750-850 used. For even less there's the Kingpin, but that only works if you can deal with a P90 and not having a cutaway . I've tried the Ibanez AKJV90d, and I thought it was really nice. There's also the Epi ES 175 Premium, but it's a relatively skinny neck profile.

    To the general question of back-up vs main, I like to have guitars that are different from each other, but which also can back each other up for at least some uses (I play more than one kind of music). I have three electrics - a D'Angelico semi-hollow, a strat, and an archtop (Godin Kingpin). None is very valuable or expensive, so I don't really worry about them. I just bring the one that works for the situation, or which I happen to feel like playing.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 01-12-2018 at 02:20 PM.

  8. #7

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    I have an Epi Zephyr Regent, with a Duncan PU in it and it was going to be my first recommendation. Well built. Solid. Great acoustic vibe. With a PU change, some serious guitar. But the neck is narrow, as some Epi's are designed to be. It's fast but for some chordal situations, I wish it had the Gibson width.
    The Eastman, however, also with a PickUp change puts you right in the middle of the ballpark. Just as well built and serious an instrument as your 165, that gets my top recommendation. Careful though, put an Antiquities in there or a Gibson PAF and you might just fall in love.

    David

  9. #8

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    Backup requirements aside, that rig pictured above is the epitome of "everything you need, and nothing you don't." Congrats. The black ES looks really slick.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpguitar
    Backup requirements aside, that rig pictured above is the epitome of "everything you need, and nothing you don't." Congrats. The black ES looks really slick.
    +1 What rp said. That rig is "just right."

  11. #10

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    Does it need to have one pickup? If not, the 70’s es-175 clones can be close to just as good as the real thing with the sound approaching indistinguishable and you get a vintage guitar out of it. I got my ‘77 D’Agostino 175 for 500 bucks and it has the neck you are describing, rounded binding and all that. I did a video comparing he tone of a 2004 ES-175, a 2000 PM100 and the ‘77 D’Agostino and it was hard to tell the difference between them. The factories that were making the Ibanez Gibson clones were also making the clones for the other brands so if you get one that plays well and has made it safely through the years then you will have a killer guitar if you wait for one with a low price or one with a brand that doesn’t command a lot of dollars.


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  12. #11

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    I'll second the Epi Zephyr Regent (reissue) idea. Got mine for $500 shipped on Reverb. I did a full rewire with CTS pots, PIO cap and a SD Seth Lover pickup. Oh, and upgraded the pickguard and added a rosewood bridge...

    Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-img_9033-jpg

    (This one from before I modded it)

    Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-img_8724-jpg


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  13. #12

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    Very good suggestions all round. The Epiphone Zephyr Regent looks great and is one that escaped my radar. For $500 and with a pup and wiring harness upgrade, it looks like a super buy. Would happily gig that one as my main guitar.

  14. #13
    Hey everyone,

    Thanks so much for all of your awesome feedback! The Epiphone and Eastman seem to be really great options. Both are a bit scarce on the used market so I’ll have to keep my eyes peeled for now. I am particularly drawn to the blonde specimens of both. Godin’s seem nice, too. I have never played one in person and would really really like to. They seem to punch way over their price range.

    I really appreciate the compliments regarding my current rig as well. I have gone through the rigors of “buying my way up” and using what I had at the time to learn / gig / grow. It all started with an Epiphone Joe Pass that I wish I still had... I am very fortunate to have landed these pieces of equipment now. The ES165 is pretty beat up so I got it way under the usual going rate. The electronics were not working when I received it so I managed to solder it all back together and get it up and running. I had to replace the tailpiece too. The neck is clean but the back of the body and headstock have lots of “character”! The Deluxe Reverb is also I little rough around the edges externally but runs incredibly well and is internally clean from what I can tell.

    I would have to admit I have looked on this forum for advice throughout my entire “gear journey” (roughly ten years at this point) and have all of you to thank! I don’t post very often and am very grateful for your eagerness to help.

    Ian

  15. #14
    Some additional pics...

    I forgot to mention I also had to add a wooden block inside the body to hold the strap button near the neck joint in place. It arrived to me with the button in the place it is now except it had nothing behind the wall of the body to grab onto so it was loose and wiggling around... I stuck a block in there to stabilize it and make it functional/structural. I also added a wooden Stew Mac bridge and slotted the string spacing with a nail file... The back of the body is completely covered in heavy and deep lacquer checking and the back of the neck near the headstock was knocked around at one point and had been crudely repaired with some black goop??? The pickguard sits a bit misaligned along the pickup mount (possibly body shrinkage?) and the label inside the body was completely loose so I glued that back into place. Someone did not take care of this guitar but I’m glad it’s up and running again. The acoustic qualities are incredible and the amplified tone is wonderful. Great feel in the hands on the big, clean neck. Also, it was made the year I was born so I feel a strange attachment to this one...
    Attached Images Attached Images Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-1397d76c-658b-4e45-8b7e-251ed70b96e4-jpg Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-6fb418fc-7a08-4097-af5b-925165b856d1-jpg Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-5b813d4d-4871-4f28-982c-bbea4cde7c39-jpg Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-4deab740-39f7-4d4a-af05-53d1e155ae84-jpg Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-6cf0cde3-2dac-4e10-a4da-8ff26edd66a7-jpg Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-b0cdb283-f64a-45c7-927a-6705d234b2c0-jpg Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-616b1418-32df-4214-aeee-d20f7330a0ca-jpg 

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by orabbit1
    it was made the year I was born so I feel a strange attachment to this one...
    Not strange at all. If I'd want a guitar from my birthyear it would cost me a fortune....LOL!

  17. #16

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    It looks like someone might have changed out the tailpiece too. I don't have complete info on this, but most ES165's I've seen have the zig-zag style tailpiece, though I haven't got actual data to back that up.

    Most of these ES165s from that era have a surprisingly good acoustic tone. I know mine surely does!

  18. #17

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    Are ALL Epi Zephyr Regents made with mahogany back and sides, no matter when they were made ?


    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I strongly suggest the Epiphone Zephyr Regent Re-Issue. Virtually an exact copy, with mahogany back/sides to boot. About $500 for a pretty nice one. Profits from a pickup swap.

    Guitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-epiphone-zephyr-regent-5-jpgGuitars similar to Gibson ES-165 (specifically neck) as a backup-epiphone-zephyr-regent-3-jpg

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by electricfactory
    Are ALL Epi Zephyr Regents made with mahogany back and sides, no matter when they were made ?
    I think the re-issues, the ones that look like the old ES165, were all mahogany back/sides. Mine is a 2003 and is a hog; I've never heard of any with maple for the back/sides & neck.

  20. #19

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    I'm very interested in these, the only thing that gives me pause is something I read about it having a narrower neck width than it's Gibson ES-165 counterpart- is that true ?


    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I think the re-issues, the ones that look like the old ES165, were all mahogany back/sides. Mine is a 2003 and is a hog; I've never heard of any with maple for the back/sides & neck.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by electricfactory
    I'm very interested in these, the only thing that gives me pause is something I read about it having a narrower neck width than it's Gibson ES-165 counterpart- is that true ?
    I think the nut-width is the same, but it has the typical Epiphone slimmer neck front-to-back. I won't be able to measure it until Monday, but I find it very comfortable, and that's comparing it with an L5ces, ES175, ES165, and a 70's era L5ces clone (Aria). I think it's the same width, but thinner front to back.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by electricfactory
    Are ALL Epi Zephyr Regents made with mahogany back and sides, no matter when they were made ?
    Yes. The "reissue" that Lawson and I posted pics of, yes. 1999-2008.


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  23. #22

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    When I gigged steadily with my rock band I learned that ALWAYS keep with two as similar axes as possible. If the string breaks or something else You just change the guitar and the show goes on.

    I don’t do this with my jazz gigs, I have only my ES175 with me. I play it much easier and the strings are heavier so the risk of string break is minimal. And if it happens, the band can take 1-3 more solo rounds meanwhile I put a new string in my guitar, we play jazz anyway!

    ES-165 is a great axe. The suggestions for spare axe have been first class.

    BTW: it is good to have some spare tubes with You when You gig with a tube amp! I have never needed a spare but maybe it is the next gig when my good luck ends...!

  24. #23

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    A good one for 350 Dollars. Purchased in France 15 days ago. The sound is very dark and warm, very old school sound...
    Will never be as good as a Gibson, however the sound is really intersting for a ridiculous price! I like it !!!
    A rare guitar because it is no longer manufactured. But if you see one go and try it, you will be surprised!



  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Room135
    A good one for 350 Dollars. Purchased in France 15 days ago. The sound is very dark and warm, very old school sound...
    Will never be as good as a Gibson, however the sound is really intersting for a ridiculous price! I like it !!!
    A rare guitar because it is no longer manufactured. But if you see one go and try it, you will be surprised!


    Great Find! Wonderful Price!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by electricfactory
    I'm very interested in these, the only thing that gives me pause is something I read about it having a narrower neck width than it's Gibson ES-165 counterpart- is that true ?
    I have an Epi. Mine and every other one I've ever seen has had a narrower neck, narrower in width at the nut and a narrower spec at the 14th fret where the neck meets the body. It's got a bit of meat to it, and with the combination narrower width, it feels rounder in cross section. I've only seen a half dozen of these reissues and I only own one, so don't consider me an authority, but that's my experience.
    By the way, I've put a Duncan jazz in mine and recontoured the back of the neck on mine, it's quite different from my Gibson but I do like it.

    David