The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye
    I love the Helix. cannot comment on AX8 as I've never actually played thru one live.

    If you're a "one sound" player then you may find the premium modelers a little overkill. No question about quality in my opinion and a full library of great effects but you must use a full range full response system for best results. (Ive never used it as an effects only unit but I would guess that it's perfectly acceptable).

    It requires some patience and a lot of trial and error, especially for live setups, but when dialed in yields incredible results.

    I use it in two basic ways: Economy set up (one guitar, one cab for smaller gigs) and full on stereo rig with 3 different guitars. In either case I can send a signal to the house PA or mains. If you've got a sound man, he will love you for ease of set up. If you're self mixing it can be a little challenging in balancing your patches but with lots of trial and error you'll get it dialed in.

    for full stereo ambience, I run two elevated FR/FR QSC K10's on the backline. Its lucious and true. In seconds I can switch from crystal clear nylon or acoustic to hollwbody or a crunch Tele or searing Strat. I'll probably never go back. I'm spoiled now.

    For simpler gigs like filling in for a blues band it's one trip in and out with the Tele, a cab and the Helix. Same great sound. There's a definite learning curve to maximize their utility but I personally love it. Really versatile and nothing but compliments on the sound.

    These are my opinions only and based on my experience of many years of playing thru real amps. For shear versatility it's tough to beat. Fits my use perfectly.
    Yes, there’s definitely a learning curve. But it’s really worthwhile to put in the time to learn.


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  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by electricfactory
    I have a Line 6 HELIX and have been using it in the studio for almost two years as a part of my studio rig and occupation.
    I can't say enough about it as a useful, easy to command, convenient and impressive sounding tool for any guitarist looking to expand their sound canvas.
    I provide music soundtrack for film and tv, as such the HELIX is invaluable at producing rich and convincing amp tones at the flip of a dial. In terms of deep and rich clean tones for an archtop or for playing jazz the HELIX is hard to beat. The amp and cab models are spectacular. The effects are for me useable and then some, though as someone else has pointed out it's hard to beat an Eventide Harmonizer for what it does, that said the HELIX has enough onboard effects as to keep anyone busy for thousands of hours.
    I should mention that I also have the Fractal AX8, another similar box that performs similarly. The user interface of the HELIX is much more user friendly in my opinion.
    Can you share your clean patch here? I’m interested how you set up your patch. I’ll post mine when i can get around to it.


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  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenhan
    Sorry for the late reply. I’m not very well versed in amp talk. So can you tell me what blackface exactly is? Then I can try to give you a more useful feedback. One thing I notice over and over about modeler reviews is that they all feature heavy driven sound, and almost never clean sounds that jazz folks are interested. But I’m finding that there’s a lot of great clean sounds.


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    No worries, I was talking about the Twin Reverb, if it's REALLY clean and how it sounds for jazz. Many thanks!

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    No worries, I was talking about the Twin Reverb, if it's REALLY clean and how it sounds for jazz. Many thanks!
    I'll be looking into this myself when I (very shortly) get my new Alto TS210 speaker jorgemg1984, plus some of the other amp models - will report back!

  6. #80

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    Many thanks, Meggy!

  7. #81

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    Just to update further - having had the Alto TS210 speaker a few days now.

    So - I will admit at first I thought the FRFR powered speaker idea could be a mistake, as I wasn't greatly pleased with the sounds I was getting straight away. Also I would say to anyone considering this kind of setup, using amp/cab/mic models, with an FRFR speaker, that if you imagine it will be just like having a Fender Twin one minute, and then being able to switch to having a sound just like another nice amp, and so on - ... it won't. Like it or not, the sound is not coming from a normal guitar cab or combo amp, and that does have an effect. Plus, the tone includes a mic model as well, so another difference. I think this is all stuff that comes under the "not having an amp in the room" heading - it's been talked about on the web, and a reason why some people don't like this kind of setup. I wouldn't want to overstate it, but it's a thing.

    But - I have spent some time tweaking things, experimenting, and I do now have a clean sound I like very much indeed. This is using the Fender Twin amp model, with a different cab (one of the 1x12" models) and I forget which mic model. There is also the facility with the mic models to cut some high and low frequencies - you can control the cutoff frequencies - which is very helpful. Also just getting the amp model eq controls where I like them is a big thing. The speaker cab models have a huge effect, so well worth trying different ones. With this kind of setup, and it's really a plus in the end, there is a huge amount one can do to change and influence the sound - for better or worse. So not a case of switch on and instant tone nirvana, but with a bit of work, and trying things (and there's a lot to try), very good sounds can be found.

    One thing I personally like very much is just the "hi fi" aspect (whether authentic or not) - the detail and clarity in the tone is very striking. You really can "hear the string windings", and note-separation within chords is fantastic. The Alto speaker does not seem to lack in terms of sound fidelity in this respect. The sound fidelity seems to me to be a positive quality of the Helix/FRFR setup in it's own right, and actually an improvement over the real guitar amps I've used over the years (although I've never owned a Fender Twin, so maybe those are just as good?). At the moment I'm just getting a few patches set up at home, with a few key tones I will need for band use - at some stage I'll take the setup to a rehearsal and try things at band volume. There may well be some more adjustment needed then, I will see. And if that works out, then I guess the next step is an actual gig. But this is a different way of doing things, with a learning curve involved, and not something that one can just jump straight into overnight - at least this is how it seems to me.

    The Helix itself remains lovely, and great fun - if I had to negotiate complicated sub-menus and non-intuitive editing procedures to find my sounds, I don't think it would work for me, but happily this is not the case. It's a pleasure to use, and encourages experiment. And yes, it can do a fine job for jazz, but if all you really want is one great clean jazz tone (and certainly if you already have that) then I'd say don't make your life more complicated than it needs to be. Myself, I certainly won't be selling my Polytone - for a certain kind of jazz sound, that can't be beat, and I wouldn't want to lose the ability to just take a guitar and amp to a jazz gig. But the Helix is allowing me to explore a whole lot of other sounds and possibilities - if you have the urge to do that, then it's great.

  8. #82

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    Sounds like you're having fun. that's great, Meggy.

    The only thing I'll add (and this is not specific to you, Meggy, but a general comment about the Helix) is that it should be understood that the Helix is not a "guitar simulator" on it's own. It won't make a mid series Ibanez archtop sound like an L-5, nor is it designed to do that on it's own. And I guess that the short story is that the fidelity of the unit is pretty true to the guitar that you connect to it, in general. Which is maybe the long way of saying, you get out of it what you put in to it.

  9. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye
    Sounds like you're having fun. that's great, Meggy.

    The only thing I'll add (and this is not specific to you, Meggy, but a general comment about the Helix) is that it should be understood that the Helix is not a "guitar simulator" on it's own. It won't make a mid series Ibanez archtop sound like an L-5, nor is it designed to do that on it's own. And I guess that the short story is that the fidelity of the unit is pretty true to the guitar that you connect to it, in general. Which is maybe the long way of saying, you get out of it what you put in to it.
    Thanks Michael - Certainly I'd agree, and if I gave a different impression at all, then not my intention. It's hard to explain about the nature of something like the Helix, and it may be that I'm not doing a very good job - either of conveying all the good things that it is, or the things it isn't! My comments about hi-fi sound fidelity were just meant to explain that it's very good at bringing out details/nuance in the signal that's already there - my strat with blue-silver-red Lace Sensor pickups suddenly sounds tremendous with the Helix and FRFR cab, I think partly because of this improved detail resolution. Haven't found a way to make it sound like an L5 though (yet... ).

    But try one if you can, anybody who's interested - at a music store would be worthwhile if they gave you an hour or so, or perhaps better if you already have a friend who would let you try their setup, and perhaps try setting up a tone to your taste - that would tell you a lot I think.

  10. #84

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    Thanks for all the comments, I've been using a modelling rig for 3 years now, and I won't go back, maybe just get a Mambo 8 for small stuff.

    The "hi-fi" aspect you mention, is part of what appeals to me. Unlike what lots of people think, products like the Helix don't model guitar amps, they model MICED guitar amps, which is quite a different thing.

    My rig is quite small and simple right now, but one day I think I'l get an Helix or an AX8.

    Meggy, you should try with 3rd party Impulse Responses, that should make a big difference. I can send you a few good IRs, if you wish!

  11. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    Thanks for all the comments, I've been using a modelling rig for 3 years now, and I won't go back, maybe just get a Mambo 8 for small stuff.

    The "hi-fi" aspect you mention, is part of what appeals to me. Unlike what lots of people think, products like the Helix don't model guitar amps, they model MICED guitar amps, which is quite a different thing.

    My rig is quite small and simple right now, but one day I think I'l get an Helix or an AX8.

    Meggy, you should try with 3rd party Impulse Responses, that should make a big difference. I can send you a few good IRs, if you wish!
    Thanks Jorge - can I ask what your current rig is, out of interest? And I certainly wouldn't object to you sending me a few good IRs to try, that would be very welcome! I'll send you a PM with my email. And are there any especially good places to look for IRs suited to jazz and fusion playing that you'd recommend? I don't mind spending a bit to get them, but don't want to be paying for stuff that's really for the djent metal crowd or whatever.

  12. #86

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    PM replied!

    My rig is a Logidy EPSi for impulse respondes, a Zoom G3n for effects, a "preamp in a box" pedal and a passive DI. I have several preamp pedals, the ones I like the most are my Polytone in a pedal (see thread) and a blackface pedal Jon Mambo did for me, that I hope he releases soon. I also have an Amplifire, that I don't enjoy for modelling, when I use it I use it just for fx, IRs and DI - with a preamp pedal before.

    I love Redwirez and Ownhammer, everything they do is great. As for speakers, Jensens are cool for that vintage Fender sound and EV-12L are spectacular for a more mid heavy jazz modern sound. Ownhammer also did some Altec 417-H files that work well. in general, I don't like Celestions for jazz, the exception being the G12-65. Unfortunately more modern speakers are not widely available, I happen to have some Cannabis Rex impulses that are maybe my favourite of all, but the seller does not sell them currently. Of course, Dr Bonkers Polytone files are excellent for that Poly sound we all love.

    One other thing I recommend messing with modellers is the compressor. If you have a good studio compressor in the Helix, it can make a hell of a difference when it comes to clean sounds, just some polishing on the edges, no squashy Frusciante sounds.

  13. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    PM replied!

    My rig is a Logidy EPSi for impulse respondes, a Zoom G3n for effects, a "preamp in a box" pedal and a passive DI. I have several preamp pedals, the ones I like the most are my Polytone in a pedal (see thread) and a blackface pedal Jon Mambo did for me, that I hope he releases soon. I also have an Amplifire, that I don't enjoy for modelling, when I use it I use it just for fx, IRs and DI - with a preamp pedal before.

    I love Redwirez and Ownhammer, everything they do is great. As for speakers, Jensens are cool for that vintage Fender sound and EV-12L are spectacular for a more mid heavy jazz modern sound. Ownhammer also did some Altec 417-H files that work well. in general, I don't like Celestions for jazz, the exception being the G12-65. Unfortunately more modern speakers are not widely available, I happen to have some Cannabis Rex impulses that are maybe my favourite of all, but the seller does not sell them currently. Of course, Dr Bonkers Polytone files are excellent for that Poly sound we all love.

    One other thing I recommend messing with modellers is the compressor. If you have a good studio compressor in the Helix, it can make a hell of a difference when it comes to clean sounds, just some polishing on the edges, no squashy Frusciante sounds.
    Cheers again Jorge - I will be looking into the IR sellers you mention, and hope to make a few more informed purchases due to your advice. Funny you should mention the compressor thing - I have an "LA studio compressor" first in the chain on my Helix clean patch - just on subtle settings, but I don't seem to ever want to turn that one off. Also funny about the Zoom G3n - I still have my Zoom G3, and find it useful just to sit on top of my Polytone amp for small gigs (the sort where I wouldn't be using the Helix anyhow) - I wouldn't get much if I were to sell it, so that's something I will hang on to. Love that you can get Polytone impulses from Dr Bonkers - didn't know about that!

  14. #88

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    Hi Meggy, Cool that you keep this alive with your progress. I know that the learning curve is long from my own experience with the Line 6 POD. I have found that I could/can sit with it for a hour or so and be enthralled with all it can do, and then suddenly tire of it and give up at that point, only to start again at a later time and discover new things. Unfortunately I know no one who has one of the devises otherwise I would have tried it a long time ago.

    Btw, above you and jorgemg have referred to IR. What is that function?

  15. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meggy
    Cheers again Jorge - I will be looking into the IR sellers you mention, and hope to make a few more informed purchases due to your advice. Funny you should mention the compressor thing - I have an "LA studio compressor" first in the chain on my Helix clean patch - just on subtle settings, but I don't seem to ever want to turn that one off. Also funny about the Zoom G3n - I still have my Zoom G3, and find it useful just to sit on top of my Polytone amp for small gigs (the sort where I wouldn't be using the Helix anyhow) - I wouldn't get much if I were to sell it, so that's something I will hang on to. Love that you can get Polytone impulses from Dr Bonkers - didn't know about that!
    Cool, we're on the same path Don't sell the G3, it's still a great pedal!

    I'm not technically inclined, so I'll do my best. Impulse Responses are WAV files that have "snapshots" of a certain guitar cab, speaker, mic and eventually preamp, mixer, power amp. They're very accurate, in my experience! In my experience, this is the decisive part of a modelling rig, much more than the amp simulation... a good IR is essential.

  16. #90

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    Thanks to Jorge for helping re impulse responses - what are they? is indeed a very good question - I'm still not entirely clear myself, and not technically minded either. From my own practical point of view, they are things that can be put in an effect chain on the Helix, and which give the sound qualities of "something" - where that "something" can be a cab/speaker/mic combination, or an acoustic guitar (I've already got some acoustic guitar IRs for when I need to get an acoustic sound on gigs), and probably other things too. So they represent aspects of a sound-producing system anyhow, in the form of a response of that system to a short sound (impulse), stored as a short wav file - this can then be used to modify a signal in modelling units like the Helix. Something like that anyhow!

    I think the existing factory cab/mic models in the Helix probably use IRs, but one can also buy (or free download for some) third party IRs at fairly low cost, and install them on the Helix to use - and it seems this is recommended as a way to getting best results.

  17. #91

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    Meggy and Jorge

    One of you mentioned that there are programs that can be used to create IR´s. Could you mention a couple?

    It has also been mentioned that there are sites where free IR´s may be downloaded from, could a couple of those be referred to? It would be much appreciated, 0zoro

  18. #92

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    I have managed to find a site with IR´s, however nothing that I believe relates to jazz sounds, only metal like references. If there are jazz sites, or rather sites that include jazz sounding IR´s it would be appreciated.

  19. #93

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    Ozoro - Jorge did give a few pointers in the post below - avoid nearly all the Celestion speaker IRs seems to be one take home! And Dr Bonkers site looks good for Polytone cab impulses: Guitar Cabinet Files | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab

    Just from the brief bit of experimenting I've done so far with speaker cab models, I tend to find that the single or dual speaker cabs work better for me, and less so the 4x12s. Although I guess keep an open mind with these things.


    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    PM replied!

    My rig is a Logidy EPSi for impulse respondes, a Zoom G3n for effects, a "preamp in a box" pedal and a passive DI. I have several preamp pedals, the ones I like the most are my Polytone in a pedal (see thread) and a blackface pedal Jon Mambo did for me, that I hope he releases soon. I also have an Amplifire, that I don't enjoy for modelling, when I use it I use it just for fx, IRs and DI - with a preamp pedal before.

    I love Redwirez and Ownhammer, everything they do is great. As for speakers, Jensens are cool for that vintage Fender sound and EV-12L are spectacular for a more mid heavy jazz modern sound. Ownhammer also did some Altec 417-H files that work well. in general, I don't like Celestions for jazz, the exception being the G12-65. Unfortunately more modern speakers are not widely available, I happen to have some Cannabis Rex impulses that are maybe my favourite of all, but the seller does not sell them currently. Of course, Dr Bonkers Polytone files are excellent for that Poly sound we all love.

    One other thing I recommend messing with modellers is the compressor. If you have a good studio compressor in the Helix, it can make a hell of a difference when it comes to clean sounds, just some polishing on the edges, no squashy Frusciante sounds.

  20. #94

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    As to programs to create IRs - not something I know about at all (yet). Maybe someone's done a guide on Youtube or something?

  21. #95

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    Hi, Ozoro!

    Sorry for the delay.

    I've already mentioned a few good sites, check them out.

    I'm not aware of good free IRs for jazz.

    I'm also not familiar with software to create IRs, although I know there are a few. Creating a good IR is VERY hard, and there are so many good ones for cheap, I never bothered. There's also a few software programs to edit IRs, but I also never bothered with that - and software to load IRs, if you connect your guitar to a PC.

    If you want I can send you a few IRs, just for you to see how it works, but you wuld need some modelling device or computer software to load them.

  22. #96

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    Jorge, that would be very nice. What kind of software do I need?

  23. #97

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    I never used any software, but I have read good things about this one

    FREE Impulse Response Loader-PULSE Guitar Cabinet IR loading Plugin

    Shoot me a PM with your e-mail, and I'll hook you up with the files!

  24. #98

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    I will check it all out Jorge. Very generous of you to take the time and energy! Thanks!

  25. #99

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    I keep dragging this thread back - just yet another report with a few findings.

    - I bought a couple of patches from here: Helix Patches - not a huge outlay, and I just wanted to see how that would work out (I bought the "Litiga" and "Cartographer" patches). Maybe there are good things I can learn from studying how the patches are put together, and there are some things I like about them, and I'll perhaps use them as starting points to modify from. But I think I'm inclined to stick to creating my own patches in future - it's interesting to see what someone else likes, and also interesting to see how that can be quite different to my own taste in certain ways. But really, I think the key is to trust one's own ears.

    I've been trying some of the sample impulse responses Jorge kindly sent me - they make a huge difference. The Polytone cabinet IRs from Dr Bonkers:

    Guitar Cabinet Files | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab

    ...are IMO a must have purchase for anyone playing clean jazz with a Helix - maybe I say that as a long time Polytone user, but straight away, these took my clean jazz tone up a notch or two, compared to the best I'd had before using the stock Helix cab models. I will shortly be purchasing the full set myself, not expensive, and they do something highly nice and useful I can't find anywhere else.

    I've got a lot of experimenting with other IRs to do - besides the Polytone stuff, I will want to also have more shimmery, open kind of cleans - but still have to decide exactly which amp, cab or IR models will best do that for me. I did download the free "American Custom" IRs from Rosen Digital Audio: customCabs - Rosen Digital Audio - just 3 IR files, all similar, but on first trying they seem really excellent, needed a bit of bass cut (easily done on the Helix) but really good-sounding. You have to put them in a basket, set up an account, and provide details as with any other purchase, but well worth the trouble - I may go back and buy some more of their stuff.

    As is typical, I have a load of gigs coming up all at once in the next week, after a while with not many at all. Anyhow, I think I will be brave and give the Helix and Alto TS210 cab setup a tryout at a couple of them - it will be interesting if nothing else. I guess I'll also have my Polytone with me, just in case, but I'm optimistic I won't need it.

  26. #100

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    Hello Meggy
    A bit of water has passed under the bridge, and a few notes across the fretboard, so I thought I would pop in and ask how things are going for you? Is sound development moving in the right direction? Have you found a great difference in sound produced after having channeled through the Alto? Was the sound too coloured when initially channeled through your amp, what ever model that was. How have you found the IR´s as a base for personal tuning after installation? How did the gig/gigs go witht he new bit of kit, did it work out or did you use the back up? There you see, this was not only a social visit, my curiosity is still high. Hope alls well!