How is the Quality Control on (non-Gibson) guitars?

[newsense]

The poll on whether Gibson buyers have been happy with the quality control on their purchases has been running for a while. Whilst the statistics may be questionable compared to the thousands of guitars Gibson has sold over the last 5 years, what it definitely tells us is that one third of the respondents to date were not happy with the QC on a guitar they had bought. At first this seems to me to be an unacceptable statistic - but could well be skewed by the picky nature of JGF members.

However to be fair to Gibson we should provide a baseline to judge that stat against. So, please take the poll, which asks whether or not you were happy with the QC on the last guitar that you bought that was not a Gibson.

[LtKojak]

I usually buy second-hand instruments and I set'em up to my liking, but my late purchase was an Epi ES-339, which turned out to be simply outstanding, both craftmanship- and tone-wise, once I got rid of that extremely -capacitance wire used to make the harness and changed the magnets, screws, slugs and keeper bars with known alloys in the stock Alnico Classic Pro p'ups.

After that and about a year of breaking-in, that instrument will give any ES, CS instrument a round for its money and then some.

[radiofm74]

Hi, sorry to ask but does it make sense to do a poll lumping together QC on guitars having wildly different prices and provenance (Fender, Squier, Loar, Peerless, Campellone, Slaman, Washburn, Hagstrom, ...)?

You may want to at least establish a reference price point.

[feet]

my last one was my first brand new us made guitar ever, a guild m20. sounds and feels amazing, but they kinda blew it with the fret edges and finish. i get they are a new plant but still, it isn't a good look.

before that, its mij after mij after mij and i haven't been let down yet. the yairi could be a museum piece and a terada made gretsch/epiphone is probably the safest bet in guitars.

for context, i'm very, very fuck it and have voided the warranty of most of my guitars, often to a large extent.

[newsense]

Hi, sorry to ask but does it make sense to do a poll lumping together QC on guitars having wildly different prices and provenance (Fender, Squier, Loar, Peerless, Campellone, Slaman, Washburn, Hagstrom, ...)?

You may want to at least establish a reference price point.

Fair point, but in the previous poll we didn't distinguish between a $1000 or a $10000 guitar. I think it opens up a whole can of works and complications. This isn't academic research; it is a straw poll to try to establish whether the poor QC reputation of Gibson is more fact than fiction. No matter how much detail I try to put into the polls, the results will still be questionable.

But most importantly, to me, a faulty guitar is faulty no matter what the price point.

[Boston Joe]

I've been very happy with the QC on my instruments. The two Fenders that I bought new (a Strat and a J-Bass, both Mexican made) are terrific. The nut on my bass broke, but there was no way to tell it was faulty before that happened. The fret ends needed a little dressing, but on the whole, no complaints.

The QC on my Ibanez is tremendous. It's everything you could want, right down to the setup.

My Epi and my Tele were bought used. Both in good shape, but I can't speak to what they were like from the factory.

[Meggy]

Perhaps I should say that I have never bought or owned a Gibson guitar, and it's entirely possible that I never will. Unless someone wants to lend me the dosh for a nice Larry Carlton custom shop 335, or a Wes model L5 maybe?

[Ray175]

Last new buy was an Ibanez 2619 Prestige. No possible criticism other than a minor adjustment to the bridge for intonation on the plain G string (I don't have a light touch, and prefer it to be slightly flat when open, but in tune when elsewhere on the neck). Other than that finishing and setup was excellent.

The one before was also an Ibanez (420) and QC was excellent - the only beef was the quality of the pots, but at the low price I can't complain and that isn't a QC issue anyway.

Before that was a Martin 12 string (J16-12GT) where the nut needed a bit of attention, and the previous Martin 6 (JM) the bridge pegs were not properly seated (sloppy)

[asmlaw]

Last two guitars were Sadowsky Jimmy Bruno (used) and Collings Eastside Deluxe -- both perfect (to my eye at least); superior to the many Gibsons in have owned in quality. Also sound great and a joy to play.

[Greentone]

Companies go through ups and downs. I remember Fender in the 70s. I wanted to buy a Precision Bass in the '72-'74 period, IIRC. I walked into Veneman or Giant Music in Northern Virginia. I asked to see a sunburst P that was hanging on the wall--brand new. Well, it was assembled so poorly that the G-string was not even over the fretboard! The string actually fretted off the edge of the board.

This is correctable, but how the heck did this even get shipped? I'm sure that Gibson, Guild, and other instruments of that period had flaws, but I seem to recall more clunkers coming from Fender, back then.

Now, it seems to be Gibson's turn.

Funny thing is, those early 70s Fenders have all been repaired and now bring pretty big coin.

[LtKojak]

Funny thing is, those early 70s Fenders have all been repaired and now bring pretty big coin.

You know what they say about fools and their money, isn't it?

[TedBPhx]

My last new guitar before the CME Gibson is an Ibanez GB10se. It was perfect out of the box. Setup with flats from Ibanez I just tuned it up about a half step and played away. Fit, finish and intonation were flawless.

[zephyrregent]

There was not a flaw to be found in the 4 D'Angelico models I ordered through AMS online in 2014-2015 - an EXL-1, Style B, EX-59 and EX-DH. Finish and fretwork were all perfect.

[rob taft]

The last new Gibson I purchased was in 2005. It was a Les Paul Deluxe and it was in perfect shape with the exception of that goofy period correct way they do the binding in the cutaway i.e. not a flaw.

Since that purchase I have with the exception of used vintage pieces and custom luthier built pieces purchased 5 new guitars from Larrivee, Eastman (2), Yamaha and Peerless since that time. In 2017 I purchased an ElRey4 and a Peerless Maestro Martin Taylor. Of the 5 guitars only one, my first Eastman had any quality problem. In that case the frets were over beveled at the ends. The Eastman Elrey4 and the Peerless I purchased in 2017 were flawless. I haven't bought a guitar in person since the year 2000 i.e. all on line or over the phone and only returned one. That being my first Guild Benedetto AA in 2001 which had white streaks under the finish and a single bearclaw marking right in the middle of the opening of the tailpiece. Guild sent me another and I was satisfied.

[goldenwave77]

Apart from some partscasters, I built up, the last significant non-Gibson was:

- Yamaha cross-over, classical from Joe DeNisco---in great shape and sounds pretty good, so no complaints, a LOT of gtr. for not much $.


Heritage 550, superb player, and sounds really good, quality easily as good as a top-flight Gibson,


Orville 335: authorized Japanese copy. Impeccable fit and finish, but just sounded dead. No amount of knob tweaking could fix this.....thickish poly finish....I think Asian guitars lean towards these, rather than lacquer maybe because of high humidity...lacquer can take a lot of time to dry, and I'm told is troublesome in high humidity conditions. I think I paid about $1000 a while back, and resold it for that amount. It taught me that surface appearance isn't all that significant. Purchased from Japan, so all in all, annoying but not a disaster purchase.

I replaced the 335 with a Gibson 339 for $400 more, and this is a GREAT guitar...definite keeper. Small ding in headstock....who cares? Not I.

[Thumpalumpacus]

So, please take the poll, which asks whether or not you were happy with the QC on the last guitar that you bought that was not a Gibson.

Ibanez AS-93. Fantastic workmanship and playability, and good tones. I'm very happy.

[entresz]

Last 'non-Gibson' I bought was my MIJ 62' Custom Telecaster.

Tried a few different Teles - a couple USA Telecasters, Mexican and Japanese. The one I got was the lightest by far but also the sweetest sounding. It was really amazing how different they all were. The build quality is top notch- even the quality of the woods appears to be very good - rosewood fingerboard is very dark with nice figure, the maple neck has a nice bit of figuring too.

Only thing that was lacking IMO was the pickups - they weren't "bad" - in fact they sounded pretty good, but were quite microphonic. Swapping in some Bill Lawrence Micro-coils fixed that.

It's a guitar that's good for everything - jazz, blues, pit orchestra work, you name it.... I still can't get over how good this thing sounds.

[sgosnell]

The three Benedettos I've owned have been flawless. I bought them used, and they weren't set up the way I like them, but that was easy enough to do, and is beyond quality control. There were no flaws to be found, other than some dings caused by the previous owners. The last new guitar I bought was a G&L tele clone, very cheap, but the QC was ok on it. The nut was a mess, some low and some high slots, but otherwise better than expected at the price I paid. The fit and finish were fine. Sounds like crap, but hey, it's a tele style, what would you expect?

[newsense]

I guess I'm allowed to vote in my own poll.

I have bought two guitars in the last month, either of which would qualify as a definitely "Yes" vote. The first was a MIJ Yamaha SA2200, already discussed in a NGD thread here; absolutely flawless. The more recent is a Faith Saturn Trembesi flattop - designed in the UK, manufactured in Indonesia, using locally sourced solid woods. Wow - a fantastic looking and sounding guitar - and, again, absolutely flawless.

[TKO]

Two of my last new guitar purchases were a classical guitar and a 7-string classical/Russian guitar directly from the Hora factory in Romania. Build quality and finish on those was good/great without any apparent flaws, except for the fret ends of the classical which could use some filing. But they don't hinder playing yet, so I haven't bothered. Price range is around 250€ Total (for the 2 guitars and postage ). For the price they are of ridiculous quality.

My latest buy was a second hand Simon & Patrick acoustic, which is great. Factory QC I can't comment, but the overall quality and feel is excellent. It stays in tune forever, regardless if you are playing it or not.

[jazz.fred]

I own 4 electric guitars, none of which are Gibsons. In each case, the fit and finish is impeccable.

1. Heritage H575 Custom. A truly beautiful instrument. When I took it in to my guitar tech for an initial setup after purchase he said, "This is a very well made guitar". Eat your heart out Gibson!

2. Peerless Monarch 16. Only available from Guitars n Jazz. A joy to play.

3. Ibanez AF125. Very comfortable to play and a good value in a $1000 guitar. I have been thinking about selling it to fund a Peerless "Hardtail" (ES335 clone) or a Comins GFS-1.

4. Epiphone Sheraton II (Korean made by Samick 1997). This is a very special guitar. I've been playing her for 20 years and still love her to death. Very well made. I upgraded the electronics about a year ago for around $500 and truly believe that this guitar will run with the big dogs.

I have no interest in owning a Gibson guitar.

[Greentone]

In addition to many Gibson guitars, I have owned Fender, Guild, Martin, Hagstrom, Ibanez, Polytone, Heritage, Unity, Nash, and Aria/Memphis/Matsumoku guitars.

I can't say that the quality control on any of the recent guitars I've purchased has been disappointing, at all. In general, the state of the art in guitar building has come a long, long way. It seems to me that the entry of the Asian builders was a game changer. By the 1970s, the Japanese builders had really upped their game. This widened when the Koreans, Chinese, and others entered the market.

The MIM Fenders are also built to a quite high standard. The overall standard seems remarkably high as I think about it.

What I notice instead is that for a single firm--be it Fender, Gibson, whatever--things can be episodic. Fender, for example, was up and down...then back up. Gibson was up and down (Norlin years) then back up...now back down. We saw this happen at Guild, too.

It really happened much earlier at Epiphone. Epiphone was a GREAT builder, but let their quality slide in the early 50s. The solution was to sell to Gibson. (And to have employees form a new company--Guild.) This seems to have repeated itself with Fender and now, maybe, with Gibson itself.

[GNAPPI]

I have bought used clones of a famous Gibson model in addition to owning the original "G" model and am very satisfied with my choices.

You would think that finding defects on "cast off" used gits would be easy because the PO couldn't suffer through issues, and what sane player would dump a perfect git? But it has been my experience with Heritage (prospect), Peerless (hardtail), D'Angelico (EX-DC), Ibanez (AS-153), Epiphone (Sheraton) and Eastman (T-486) that PO's definitely pass on perfect gits apparently looking for something I am not. Each one of the above has exceeded my expectations in fit, finish, playability and even in most cases sound.

What has not been established by any of them yet is long term reliability and stability of their offerings. I mean there are 50+ year old Gibson gits that are still playing and it's not an issue for me to buy a 50 year old Gibson with confidence that it will not suffer defects, as a matter of fact, I'm beginning to worry more about recent Gibson guitars more than vintage ones.

Obviously this has not stopped me from buying clones, frankly I likely won't outlive any of them so my worries are nil :-)

[johnnyjazz]

I can,t find any fault on my GB100, finish, neck and playability seem good to me, it is a wee bit heavy, does not mean that i can play like Mr Benson but that is not the guitar,s fault. Have never been the type of person that gets a guitar to give me that Benson, Wes sound etc, i believe it is all in the fingers.

[Thumpalumpacus]

In general, the state of the art in guitar building has come a long, long way. It seems to me that the entry of the Asian builders was a game changer. By the 1970s, the Japanese builders had really upped their game. This widened when the Koreans, Chinese, and others entered the market.

I remember when Westone came out with the Concord in 1982, a 2-pickup Fender sort of guit, for about $179 iirc. Reviewers were very surprised by the quality they found with that price-tag. Fast-forward 30 years, and look at the quality you can get in a basic solid-body $200 electric. The quality/price ratio has definitely risen, and that's without factoring in inflation, at the budget and intermediate niches.

Around the same time, I got my first electric, a Lyle-branded Matsumoku Strat, for $110 used with HSC. Stolen in 1985, I sure wish I had it now.

The MIM Fenders are also built to a quite high standard. The overall standard seems remarkably high as I think about it.

I've owned one before, back in the early 90s ... it wasn't bad. The modern ones seem to be a bit better than I remember my old one being, but hell, hindsight often wears rose-colored glasses too.