The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Great advice and info from a great player. One question Marc-in the Dupont world doesn't the lower the model number reflect the higher spec instrument? So would he not want to look for a 50 series or lower?

    This is not to say anything bad about the MD 60 or 100-very nice guitars.

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by SierraTango
    Great advice and info from a great player. One question Marc-in the Dupont world doesn't the lower the model number reflect the higher spec instrument? So would he not want to look for a 50 series or lower?
    This is not to say anything bad about the MD 60 or 100-very nice guitars.
    Quite right. By higher, I meant the higher end Duponts, which have a lower number.

    And I also agree about Argentine strings. I have tried them all and the Argies are still my favorites.

  4. #28

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    1) Try as many Gitanes as you can. They vary widely. Altamiras have been more consistent (and loud!) in my experience but harder to find.

    2) will dig out a rep list I did for students - standby
    Last edited by christianm77; 09-20-2017 at 07:06 AM.

  5. #29

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    I also use Krivo and AER, Argentines and 1.5mm picks lol.
    Last edited by christianm77; 09-20-2017 at 07:08 AM.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    1) Try as many Gitanes as you can. They vary widely. Altamiras have been more consistent (and loud!) in my experience but harder to find.

    2) will dig out a rep list I did for students - standby

    Brilliant .. Thx Christian. If you can dig out that rep list, it will be greatly appreciated!


    I googled 'Christian Miller Altamira' to see what model you played. Then I found a shop in Karlsruhe that had the M01D in stock .. The internet is a funny place ... At least it is not prohibitaly expensive, so I might even give it a go, if I don't find something locally
    Last edited by Lobomov; 09-20-2017 at 09:17 AM.

  7. #31

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    Just to make things a little more confusing, there is another brand, Latcho Drom, that is made in the same shop as Altamira. These pop up on the used market occasionally in the US. They are basically the same guitar, however the Altamira has a more modern neck profile which many prefer. Both are in the upper range of Asian GJG's. I had a Latcho Drom Djangology prior to my Dupont, it was LOUD!

    Being in Europe you have a advantage in that there are quite a few individual builders the specialize in GJG. Another guitar to keep on your radar would be the Dupont Nomad. They are the entry level Dupont with a bolt on neck, nothing wrong with that. The ones I have played both oval and D hole have "the sound".

  8. #32

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    THE BEST pick for this style of music is made by Jean-Charles Dugain in Paris. I have played his acetate plectrums in the 3.5-5mm thickness range for about ten years. The "Stan-Dug" (standard Dugain model) in acetate is superb, although I have tried other materials from stone to plastics. Here is the Maxidug (5mm) with the thumb and index finger grip impressions. SUPER PICK for Django stuff.
    Gypsy Jazz - Getting started-acetate-6-jpg

  9. #33

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    Another nod for the Dugains, they're just wonderful.

    I burned out on Gypsy Jazz...now I'm wanting to get back in...maybe...

  10. #34

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    Many say the Altimira is a more authentic Selmer guitar copy than the Gitane. But they cost more and a beginner may want to start with a Gitane as cheaper Gypsy guitars are easier to sell if you give up. And I think the majority of guitarists who try Gypsy jazz do give it up.

    Of the many Gypsy jazz picks that I tried, the Dugain was the one I liked the least. You are forced to hold it in one particular way. I think it is useful to have a pick that you can rotate to get a different attack for switching from rhythm to lead.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    Many say the Altimira is a more authentic Selmer guitar copy than the Gitane. But they cost more and a beginner may want to start with a Gitane as cheaper Gypsy guitars are easier to sell if you give up. And I think the majority of guitarists who try Gypsy jazz do give it up.

    Of the many Gypsy jazz picks that I tried, the Dugain was the one I liked the least. You are forced to hold it in one particular way. I think it is useful to have a pick that you can rotate to get a different attack for switching from rhythm to lead.

    Dugain makes picks without the index finger indentation too.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    And secondly. Apart from Minor Swing, what would be the usual suspects played at a GJ jam Limehouse Blues, that gypsy bossa, Nuages ???
    Hi, here's a list of songs played in a "Djam" (brilliant play on words, by the way) in my town:

    Attached Images Attached Images Gypsy Jazz - Getting started-indice-jpg 

  13. #37

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    I play the Maxi Dug without dimples

  14. #38

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    Here in Southern California (USA), I would say Gypsy jazz has the largest organized following. E.g. websites where new or intermediate players are looking for other guitar players interested in this style. In addition there are monthly Gypsy jazz jams at various coffee houses which were fun (but most of the time it would be one bass player, one violin and 10 or so guitar players!). About 20 years ago I meet a few people this way and forged some nice relationships with fellow musicians.

    The funny thing is that most of the people I meet where too much into Gypsy jazz. Hey, I love passion but it can be limiting. E.g. most didn't wish to play any other style of music. Since I was more into a bebop style of playing, overtime I move on to other things.

    The other thing I noticed is a lot of the players didn't improvise. Instead they learned to play either Django solos or solos from someone like Rosenberg 'note for note' (for songs written after Django passed); Hey, this is difficult and takes a lot of practice, but I didn't find it very creative and most didn't move beyond that: yea, we all learn riffs and motifs by listening to and trying to copy the masters but most move on, incorporating what is learned into 'new' songs as part of their overall musical expression. Note so much with these Django cats.

    This lead to always playing the same set of songs since 'new' songs were generally not welcomed (hey, you need to give me a month to work on that!).

    I have fond memories of my Django days, and I still meet with some of those guys but I know what to expect from these jams.

  15. #39

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    Gypsy jazz players can be the most conservative and narrow minded people on the scene. Doesnt matter what level. Even very good ones can look down on you if you dont subscribe to their set of rules. I show up at these jams with my resonator, and someone would always let me know its not proper- Django didnt play a one like that lol. It's fine, it doesn't bother me much, I love it for the tunes and rhythm style, never aspired to sound like Django exaxtly. Gypsy jazz is only part of Hot Jazz broader genre.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I burned out on Gypsy Jazz...now I'm wanting to get back in...maybe...
    Yeah, I go a bit hot and cold on GJ. It's a difficult style to dabble in not only because of the technical demands, but also because of the ultra-conservative culture. There is often no room for modernity, and La Pompe on every tune gets to be a bit much eventually. In the end I've moved towards playing leads in a more Charlie Christian-inspired style on a gypsy guitar, which I think sounds pretty cool but certainly wouldn't satisfy the real Djangophiles.

    There is a whole lot of nostalgia going on, and sometimes the hardcore GJers strike me as similar to Elvis impersonators. Hey, I dig the King as much as the next guy, but I'm not about to grow out my burns and start officiating weddings. Also, there is something about 10 guitar players in a row playing in unison that seems like a bit of a sausage party.

    Anyway, this is a bit off topic -- sorry, Lobomov!

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    Here in Southern California (USA), I would say Gypsy jazz has the largest organized following. E.g. websites where new or intermediate players are looking for other guitar players interested in this style. In addition there are monthly Gypsy jazz jams at various coffee houses which were fun (but most of the time it would be one bass player, one violin and 10 or so guitar players!). About 20 years ago I meet a few people this way and forged some nice relationships with fellow musicians.
    That is actually amazing .. In my town there is a monthy Djam that I've yet to visit, but hoping it will be friendly

    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    The other thing I noticed is a lot of the players didn't improvise. Instead they learned to play either Django solos or solos from someone like Rosenberg 'note for note' (for songs written after Django passed); Hey, this is difficult and takes a lot of practice, but I didn't find it very creative and most didn't move beyond that: yea, we all learn riffs and motifs by listening to and trying to copy the masters but most move on, incorporating what is learned into 'new' songs as part of their overall musical expression. Note so much with these Django cats.

    This lead to always playing the same set of songs since 'new' songs were generally not welcomed (hey, you need to give me a month to work on that!).

    I have fond memories of my Django days, and I still meet with some of those guys but I know what to expect from these jams.
    This is actually one of the things that draws me to the gypsy jazz. I have absolutely no vocabulary and found myself learning the entire Django solo to minor swing. I've always felt that I needed to learn more note for note stuff, but I have always had tendency of learning a few measures and then quickly drifting of ...

    But thanks for the warning .. I'm now ready for 2-10 repeats of Djangos solo on Minor Swing depending on the number of guitar players that show up at my first Djam (hehe)

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu
    Anyway, this is a bit off topic -- sorry, Lobomov!
    Nonsense .. great post and yeah .. well see. I might well go cold as well, but there is a tendency towards hot swing these days and a bit of gypsy seems a good gateway. At least there is some sort of community. I'm less confident that I can find people to dig CC with


    And well see .. I'm not much for rigid people so I might get frustrated but then again spending 400-500€ on a used gitane is not going to kill me even if it ends up in the attic after 6 months

  19. #43

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    Even Django moved on from the Pompe. It reminds me of my early blues gigs--incessant 12 bar tunes. (Ultimately, we broke out of that straight jacket.)

  20. #44

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    I have performed at numerous Django Festivals, Performed live with Stephane Wrembel, Paul Mehling and many others and I have Djamed with the best (John Jorgenson, Robin Nolan, Angelo DeBarre, Elios Ferre etc.) My experience with the "Django Nazis" is that they either have little skill or if they have a modicum of skill, they simply want to be a big fish in a small pond. Do not let their "shortcomings" get you down. But keep in mind that there are some fine players in the Gypsy genre (who do not have a closed minded, negative attitude) and it is fun to Djam on loud acoustic guitars.

    Your solo is yours. If you want to improvise, fine or if you want to play Django's solo note for note, go for it (doing that well does often takes quite a bit of skill). If you want to play with Gypsy picking and sound like the European Gypsies (who admire Django to the hilt) go for it. If you want to sound like Charlie Christian, go for that. If you do your thing (whatever that may happen to be) and it is musical, and you do it well, all is good.

    The only rule in jazz (Gypsy or otherwise) is that there are no rules. Listen to Django Reinhardt for proof of that.

  21. #45

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    The way I see it La Pompe was born out of need to compensate for the lack of rhythm section. When there is no drums, the rhythm guitar takes up that role. That's actually part of GJ that i do enjoy the most. if I play with good players we always come up with ' break it down' ideas on the spot, like Charleston beat, only 2 and 4, 123 rest, etc. It helps to make it more interesting. And of course there are boleros, bossa tunes and what have you...

    On the other hand, Im not married to La Pomp, and being a big fan of rhythm guitar in general, i feel free to change styles according to different situation. Ive learned many other styles before I even got to GJ! Id shoot myself if I only had to play La Pomp for the rest of my life lol

    And yet I do feel being able to play that steady rhythm ala La Pompe, or maybe use the term ACTIVE rhythm, is a kind of lost art outside of Hot Jazz community, in my observation. I think it's an essential skill for any jazz guitarist, and that's what keeps you connected to the origins of this music. 'Comping' is nice and good, but it could be a bit overrated. I saw some jazz guitarists look like fish out of water playing GJ rhythm. They don't teach it in colleges, do they? Too bad.
    Last edited by Hep To The Jive; 09-20-2017 at 10:20 PM.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

    And yet I do feel being able to play that steady rhythm ala La Pompe, or maybe use the term ACTIVE rhythm, is a kind of lost art outside of Hot Jazz community, in my observation. I think it's an essential skill for any jazz guitarist, and that's what keeps you connected to the origins of this music. 'Comping' is nice and good, but it could be a bit overrated. I saw some jazz guitarists look like fish out of water playing GJ rhythm. They don't teach it in colleges, do they? Too bad.
    I agree so much with this. At the conservatorium where I studied only a few of the guitarists could play decent rhythm. Many were heavily into free jazz, fusion etc. but lacked any fundamental understanding of key areas of musicianship. To me there's few things more useless than a guitarist that can't play good rhythm guitar. It's a harsh opinion, but being able to play good rhythm is SO important. It also makes your lead playing so much better too.

    There's also limits to what one can teach, people either get these things or they don't.

  23. #47

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    OK .. So I did it!

    I picked up the DG-255 that was for sale locally for 445€.
    It has shims under the bridge but I'm thinking of removing them ... I'm not quite sure that I'm ready for 4mm action at the 12th fret
    Last edited by Lobomov; 09-22-2017 at 12:07 PM.

  24. #48

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    A 4 mm action is absurdly high. 2.5-3mm is where you want to be.

    I have owned 4 Gitanes and the DG-255 that I had was the best of them. One thing I have found with Gitanes is that changing the bridge (to a lighter, more hollow bridge) improves the sound a lot. Good luck and Congrats on the new guitar!

  25. #49

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    Congrats on the Gitane! Do yourself a favor and have a proper GJG setup done on it. I also notice the bridge ends are missing-the little pointy pieces. Did they come with the guitar? If not it's no big problem, as far as I know they are cosmetic.
    4mm? Insanely high. Play her in good health!

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by SierraTango
    Congrats on the Gitane! Do yourself a favor and have a proper GJG setup done on it. I also notice the bridge ends are missing-the little pointy pieces. Did they come with the guitar? If not it's no big problem, as far as I know they are cosmetic.
    4mm? Insanely high. Play her in good health!

    The Bridge ends (known as Moustaches) are useful and can be found if they were not included. With the Powerful rhythm playing common to Gypsy jazz, the Bridge ends can help keep the bridge in the right place. While they are mostly cosmetic, I would want to have them on any Gypsy guitar that I was using to gig with.