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I stumbled across this rough-looking Musicman 210 HD One-Thirty combo yesterday at a local shop. It was $250, which didn't seem like too bad of a price for a righteous vintage tube amp, so I asked to try it out. I played a couple of notes and knew it was coming home with me! I didn't know anything about Musicman amps before buying (of course now I have done a bit of internet researching . . .) but I knew right away that I loved the sound.
So here's the good, the bad and the ugly of my new Musicman:
1. The good. Everything works. Reverb, tremolo, both channels, all controls. It is quiet and sounds absolutely fantastic! One scratchy volume knob, but overall tonal nirvana. That's why I couldn't resist the purchase, even though I don't need another amp, and this one isn't particularly practical.
2. The bad. It is heavy. Nice compact design, but heavy. It has a little rust. It has holes on the bottom for casters, but the wheels are missing. Also, the speakers are not original Musicman speakers. I don't know what the speakers are and would love any ideas about identifying them. The guy at the shop guessed they might be CTS? I have no idea . . . but they sound great anyway, so I'm not complaining.
3. The Ugly. This amp has seen some hard duty and it shows. The tolex on top is sprinkled with cigarette burns. There is a 1"x4" chunk of wood missing from the bottom! A previous owner spray painted the grill cloth black and did a crappy job of it. The Musicman emblem is missing from the front. So it's not a pretty amp in collectable condition. I plan to replace the grill cloth, which will make it look much better.
One other point of interest, it only has 2 power tubes installed (as shown in the photo) I'm not sure if this is a good thing or bad. In particular, I'm wondering if you could just stick in 2 more tubes for full power, or if a mod was done to 1/2 the power? I'm not too concerned either way as the amp sounds just great as is. It is just great for jazz tones, and I'm sure it rocks hard too. What a beast!
The coolest amp I never knew I needed !
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09-02-2017 09:59 PM
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What a beast. I briefly played a 130 head and it peeled the flesh lining from the inner surface of my skull. If I'm not mistaken, the 130 should have a switch for running at either full or half power. I also seem to recall reading that some amps you can run with a half complement of power tubes for less power. Not sure why you'd need to do this if there's a working half power switch, so verify this with a tech if you're concerned. The head I played was selling for $500, and I've seen the 4x10 version selling locally for around $800. I think you got a very sweet deal.
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Yeah, the 210 HD is a GREAT little amp. Mine is in similar condition to yours. When I got it a few of the filter caps were gone, I replaced them, and the blown speakers with 10" Celestion Tru Vox and I use it for recording.
I don't know why anyone would remove 2 power tubes, it already has the 1/2 power switch, well... it's STILL loud but it has a volume control. Maybe they wanted a crunchy sound at even lower output?
When I wanted it, the schematic was hard to come by, so I attached it here. Good luck with it, you found a jewel.
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A diamond in the rough, perhaps, but a diamond nonetheless. I had a Music Man RD112 and still miss it. Letting it go was a bad mistake. Great amps. Wonderful cleans, superb 'verb, gorgeous grit. The fact that an amp that has taken so much physical abuse still works is a testimony to its quality. Once you get the mechanical issues sorted, you'll be glad you did. Congratulations, and play it in good health!
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Great find. You could get it cleaned up, serviced with new caps, and a new cab from Sourmash Cabs, Mather Cabs or other vendors. Modern drivers are probably better for sound. Convert it to a head and external cab to make it more portable.
Andy Fuchs used to mod these into Dumble clones. Don't know whether he still does that.
Looks like a fun project. You will get a fine amp out of it.
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I was on the UC Davis campus in the early 80's attending a festival and a gentleman was playing jazzy stuff using a Strat and a Musicman amp. Some of the best tone I've heard!
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Great hybrid amp! (Solid state preamp). Clean power all the way up. I never played the 2x10, the 2x12 was great (and probably even heavier). Enjoy it!
Btw, GNAPPI's schematic is the later model with solid state phase inverter, your's has the tube phase inverter.Last edited by Little Jay; 09-03-2017 at 02:43 AM.
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I used to have the 1x12 version I bought used from Jim Fox and it was an excellent amp. Wish I had kept it.
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Congrats - I have sampled a few MM amps back in the day (when they were current production) and they all sounded great!
As for the two tubes missing: not sure if this applies to all brands and models in general but cutting the power in half by pulling two tubes usually means either the two outer or the two inner tubes...
At the price you paid it's probably worth to have it checked by a tech.
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Great amp! Heavy as sin but famously great sounding. Clapton used that one for years. It gets a great jazz sound.
Pretty sure those are 70s/80s CTS speakers...I'd keep them in there. Put a fresh set of 4 matching power tube in there.
Enjoy!
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Thanks for the speaker info Greentone ! The speakers sound great -- they're not going anywhere.
Originally Posted by Greentone
Regarding the tubes, I'm just going to play it for now. It has the two inner tubes and works and sounds great. Somewhere on the web (maybe Musicmanamps.com) I read that these amps achieve 1/2 power by dropping the voltage to the power tubes as opposed to driving only 2 of 4 power tubes. On this amp 4 tubes = 130 watts with 65 for the 1/2 power setting. So I'm wondering theoretically if the 2 tube configuration in my amp might yield 65 watts full power and 32ish watts on 1/2 power setting? You can certainly tell the difference between full power and 1/2 power, so it is definitely doing something. I guess I won't know for sure until I get a full quad installed.
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You are fine just running the two inboard tubes. You can do this on a Fender Twin Reverb or Showman.
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Here's the 12ax7 PI version. Originally Posted by Little Jay
PS. I'm not a fan of keeping / reforming old caps, installing new is the one thing you can do to an amp that does not / will not hurt sale ability or affect collectable status.
Last edited by GNAPPI; 09-03-2017 at 11:42 AM.
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I currently have my 2nd Fuchs modded MusicMan. The first was a 112 65. The kid I got it from worked for Andy. Great little amp. I now have a Music Man HD 135 that Andy used as the donor chassis- its in an old Ampeg cabinet. Even at the half power setting it's loud. Great reverb. You'll find a lot of guys here love them. They're one if the first amps Leo Fender came up with when he went on his own. Said to out Twin a Twin. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 09-03-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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Mike
Good way to put it: the HD135 can out Twin a Twin Reverb.
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The inside of these amps is also a testimony of the building quality:
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Forgive the thread resurrection, but I was just searching around to see who else has this amp and found this thread. That was a great find! I've got the exact same model; bought it maybe 25 years ago for $200. Compact, heavy, and can hold its own in both loud rock concerts and laid back jazz gigs.
The thing has a killer clean sound when you crank the master vol way up and the normal vol way down. Better reverb than any Fender I've played, and if you turn on both the Deep and the Bright switches you get a killer Dick Dale-type surf guitar tone. Mine has JBL speakers, which give it a decidedly non-British sound, which I prefer.
For jazz, it's super versatile with both my carved top and my thinline laminate. It nails that 1970s, high midtone Herb Ellis sound.
My only complaint is that for some reason the tremolo drops the whole thing's volume by like 40%. And that as I approach my 40's, it's starting to get really heavy.
Ok, end of gushing.
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Yep, no doubt about it--worthy of a thread resurrection. The Music Man HD combo amps were/are outstanding for jazz/blues/rock/country, etc.
Pick one up--if you can--and cherish it.
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You might be interested in the archived Musicman amps website; there's a lot of tech info available. You probably know already that some of these amps ran the tubes at 700V, so tube quality is definitely a consideration. I'd be inclined to check if running only 2 tubes might push the voltage even higher due to reduced current draw on the power tranny.
Welcome! | Music Man Amps
The "hall of shame' section is fun reading...
I gigged a MM 65 for many years; great amp. Unfortunately, not so easy to service as a Fender, because of the unusual hybrid design.
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For those of you that love Musicman amps I have a 84ish RD112-50 on consignment at a local store near me. It is in pristine condition and has been a backup amp for about 15 years.
Has the original speaker, Sylvania power tubes ( i thing they are original), the original footswitch and a custom leather cover. Great amp that has served me well. It was checked out by a local tech last year and received a clean bill of health.
You can reach the store at Stylesmusic.com or 909-621-0549. They are selling it at 549.00.
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Oh come on, I'm turning 45 this month and still lug my Twin around! In fact.. that IS what's keeping me in shape! Originally Posted by camhead
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Soccerpoodle,
Augh! I am looking seriously at your amp. It's one of my favorite Music Man amps of that era. Just perfect for the jazz guy who also dabbles in country and blues. (That's me!)
Hmm? When is the wife going to her reunion?
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This must be one the best-sounding amps for guitar ever conceived.
I've operated one just like this for over five years, doing about 500 concerts dates without a hitch. And it was a second-hand one; I bought it from the guitar player of the Santa Esmeralda band (touring in Argentina) for less than 500.00 USD in 1975.
And the tone, man; THE TONE!!!!! I had a '68 Gibson Les Paul Custom Black Beauty RI, fretless wonder. A match made in Heaven!
Oh, the memories...!
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I, too, had one and a '69 Les Paul Custom "Fretless Wonder" and the combination was superb. Probably the best-sounding spring reverb of all time. Also sounded great with my 345, my Strat, my PRS C24, and my ES-175. An amp for all seasons. Letting it go was really stupid, even for me (which is saying something). If it ween't on the other side of the continent, I'd be making room for it now. Originally Posted by LtKojak
This must be one the best-sounding amps for guitar ever conceived.And the tone, man; THE TONE!!!!! I had a '68 Gibson Les Paul Custom Black Beauty RI, fretless wonder. A match made in Heaven!
Oh, the memories...!
Folks, these are GREAT amps.
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Thanks for the comments. It is a great little amp. Not to heavy so it is easy to move around and it does sound great.
I bought three of these amps 15 years ago and kept the best one. For some reason (never sure why) this amp sounded way better than the other two.
My guitar at the time and until recently was a 54 Epiphone with the NY single coil pickup. That guitar loved this amp. The combination of the two was something to hear.
I sold the guitar about a year ago and the amp has just been sitting. It does not pair up as well with the Sadowsky I purchased so I am sadly letting it go.
I don't buy and sell via the internet any longer due to a lousy experience I had a while back.
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René Magritte
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