Gibson L4 CES

[silhouette]

I am thinking of buying a Gibson L4 CES.
I have not really known much about them other than they are a 175 with a carved top and an ebony fretboard.
It is a black one in very good condition.
I think it is a 95.
Any thoughts?

[JohnW400]

There very nice. I think the front pup is closer to the neck on those as well compared to a 175. They're underrated as a jazz box.

[derek]

Joe Diorio always played one, and got a great sound from it. I test drove one at the time I was shopping for a 175, and I had a bit of trouble with feedback, but it was a very nice instrument. You have the basics correct though, a 175 with solid top basically.

[randyc]

Very nearly my favorite guitar ! See my '98 model, on the left below .... Unless the instrument is defective in some way, you will most likely play it very well. There are just some guitars that bring out the best in one due to their fit, action and TONE.

Oh yeah: I have yet to find an amp that doesn't flatter the L-4CES.

cheers

p.s. can someone clue me as to how to post larger images ?

[JohnW400]

Nice looking boxes there. Nothing like a little eye candy

[silhouette]

Thanks guys.
I have to think about whether I want the black finish as I usually like to see the wood.
I have a Heritage 575 - 1956 175 x 1 p90 - Ibanez GB 10 and a Peerless Monarch.

I like that there seems to be a lot of activity on this site.

[randyc]

that '56 ES-175 ... SWEET ! Any chance of a photo ?

cheers

[silhouette]

Yeah I will try tomorrow.
Got to get some sleep!
I'm a teacher and I go back to school tomorrow/today.

[silhouette]

Full blown panic!
I opened the case for my 1956 Gibson 175 and saw strings all over the place. I couldn't understand what had happened. The tail-piece had sheared off around the joint. There must have been metal fatigue. It has been in the case for 4 weeks while I was away on holiday.
I guess I will have to find a replacement part!
Any advice?
Perhaps I should post a new thread

[bkdavidson]

There you go, man. All you need is some quadratic equation with some Pythagorean Theorem mixed in. Oh wait, that won't help at all!! Perhaps this will help: STEWMAC.COM : Archtop guitar tailpieces or this: Guitar Parts Resource ::The Guitar Player's Hardware Store

[riovine]

Originally Posted by randyc

p.s. can someone clue me as to how to post larger images ?

You have to have the photos on some web hosted site, then put the link between [IMG]<your-link-here>[/IMG]

Ron

[Squint]

Randy, i have to say that your L5 is one of the most beautiful I've ever seen. Can we get a shot of her backside?

Oh, the L4 is nice too, but I'm a sucker for a brunette with a soft shoulder cutaway...

[SamBooka]

This zombie thread will surely devour us all...

[Squint]

All i saw was Randy's L5.

brains... brains... munch munch...

[randyc]

Hey, Eric:

Saw your earlier post but it's chemo day (for my wife) - we'll be out of business for a short while but I'm pretty sure that I have photos of the backs of three guitars. (Taken when comparing the L-4CES and L-5CES with the Heritage Golden Eagle. I'll check and post - if I saved the pix.)

cheers,
Randy

[Squint]

No rush, sir. I've got too much GAS right now as it is!

Still, I've seen plenty of L5s and that is a damn fine one.
I can just tell...

It's a Custom, isn't it?

[silhouette]

Funnily enough I went to buy the L4 and the seller had a rather nice Guild Artist Award for sale as well. So I purchased them both.
The Artist award is a late 70's.
Both guitars are fab to play.
Oh and the 175 had a happy ending as I found a Californian company that di areal excellent aged repro part - could not tell the difference.

[82Benedetto]

very attractive guitars

Originally Posted by randyc

Very nearly my favorite guitar ! See my '98 model, on the left below .... Unless the instrument is defective in some way, you will most likely play it very well. There are just some guitars that bring out the best in one due to their fit, action and TONE.

Oh yeah: I have yet to find an amp that doesn't flatter the L-4CES.

cheers

p.s. can someone clue me as to how to post larger images ?

[silhouette]

Sorry about the quality of the photo but here is my Jazz box collection.
From Left:

L4 - Guild Artist Award(78) - 175(56) - Ibanez GB10 - Heritage 575 - Peerless Monarch

You can see that the 175 is back to rude health.
The L4 is rather fetching in black.
The Guild is more beautiful in the flesh.
The new guitars have settled in well - it's amazing how each sounds so individual.

[paco can]

My main guitar.
Big, lovely

YouTube - White Christmas Jazz Guitar / Gibson L-4

YouTube Video

[randyc]

Paco, that's a pretty L-4CES and you play it skillfully.

Silhouette, nice guitars (we share three of those models incidentally). That old ES-175 is a lovely instrument, it's great that you were able to replace the tailpiece with a suitable part !

Although the pickups (and the ages) are way different, your comments on the differences/similarities between the ES-175 and the L-4CES would be interesting.

[silhouette]

Thanks for sharing Paco - some really nice playing.
I'm not sure that I deserve my guitars!

Which guitars do we share?

Actually the 175 went in for a re-fret recently. My local guitar tech did a fantastic job and it really improved the acoustic response. As result it now plays beautifully.
The L4 has a very middy sound that seems to record really well. However, it has a rather bright acoustic sound. The Guild has a beautiful acoustic sound as there is no hole in the sound board - well other than the f holes. The de Armond is a fantastic pick-up - no wonder they fetch so much on ebay. It is a fantastic pure jazz guitar.
The GB10 is bright and full an almost perfect recorded sound - no wonder Norman Brown likes them so much

[Ged]

Having had a L4 CES for about a year, I have to say that they produce a beautiful sound provided you use them with a substantially-weighted amp (like the Fender Jazz King). The only thing on the 'con' side is that they can be a bit of the rattle-box. It could be the base of the bridge not quite matching the curvature of the top; the position and angle of the tailpiece; loose wiring inside; or, more usually, the scratchplate.

But I don't want to sound too negative as any decent repairman should be able to sort it out, although he'll probably have to go through all the issues to find it. Other than that...great...

[Ged]

Originally Posted by Ged

Having had a L4 CES for about a year, I have to say that they produce a beautiful sound provided you use them with a substantially-weighted amp (like the Fender Jazz King). The only thing on the 'con' side is that they can be a bit of the rattle-box. It could be the base of the bridge not quite matching the curvature of the top; the position and angle of the tailpiece; loose wiring inside; or, more usually, the scratchplate.

But I don't want to sound too negative as any decent repairman should be able to sort it out, although he'll probably have to go through all the issues to find it. Other than that...great...

Well, since writing that last year I've had the guitar (again) seen by a luthier concerning the rattling. For the second time he managed to get rid of it, only for it to return some weeks later. So I'm wondering if any of you guys can come up with an answer.

Let's go through what it is not.

1. The internal wiring? No, all this was taped up and checked.
2. Pick up dampers? No, these were renewed along with the springs.
3. The tailpiece? No, he thought of this and changed the angle slightly having seen other guitars with this problem.
4. The scratch plate? No, it's the first thing we went for and all the screws and nuts were tightened with double-sided tape attached to the part that touches the bridge pick up.
5. The frets? No, they have been reprofiled.
6. The bridge? No, he spotted that the part that touches the guitar table had a tiny gap. Hence, the bridge was altered to fit exactly.
7. Internal edge binding or strutting? No, all secure.
8. Loose volume and tone controls? No, checked.

So I am left with one thing only...the strings I use, although I can't fathom how this would cause the buzzing. I use D'Addario XL Chromes flat wound (.011 to .050).

Therefore, can any of you geniuses come up with an answer?

[Bill C]

the capacitor attached to the tone control? I used to own an ES-125 where playing a Bb always set off a mechanical buzzing from the tone cap.

"back buzz"? - when you play a certain chord a string on the headstock side of the fretting hand buzzes.

parts inside Tuneomatic bridge?

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by Ged

Well, since writing that last year I've had the guitar (again) seen by a luthier concerning the rattling. For the second time he managed to get rid of it, only for it to return some weeks later. So I'm wondering if any of you guys can come up with an answer.

Let's go through what it is not.

1. The internal wiring? No, all this was taped up and checked.
2. Pick up dampers? No, these were renewed along with the springs.
3. The tailpiece? No, he thought of this and changed the angle slightly having seen other guitars with this problem.
4. The scratch plate? No, it's the first thing we went for and all the screws and nuts were tightened with double-sided tape attached to the part that touches the bridge pick up.
5. The frets? No, they have been reprofiled.
6. The bridge? No, he spotted that the part that touches the guitar table had a tiny gap. Hence, the bridge was altered to fit exactly.
7. Internal edge binding or strutting? No, all secure.
8. Loose volume and tone controls? No, checked.

So I am left with one thing only...the strings I use, although I can't fathom how this would cause the buzzing. I use D'Addario XL Chromes flat wound (.011 to .050).

Therefore, can any of you geniuses come up with an answer?

I'll tell you something that I came up with recently that I have never encountered before . . I just bought a brand new Gibson L5 Wes Montgomery. I noticed that the guitar actually sounded like it was gargling when I chorded it above the 9th fret. I though for sure that the wound strings were defective with loose windings. Then, a closer inspection told the story. The bridge base, while perfectly fitted to the top/sound board, was sanded a little too much on the back end . . causing the base and its posts to tilt towards the back of the guitar. That caused the ABR1 bridge to tilt also. The tilting of the ABR1 bridge, raised the front of it just enough so that the wound strings were touching, ever so slightly, the saddle adjustment screws. That was the vibration I was hearing. The Fix?? Three options; reverse the orientation of the ABR1 bridge so that the screws are on the tail piece side facing the back of the guitar . . . or, properly sand the bridge base so that it sits perfectly vertical and doesn't tilt towards the back of the guitar .. . or, replace the ABR1 with an ebony saddle. I'm choosing to correct the base as well as replace the ABR1 with an ebony saddle. I prefer that warmer tone over the Tune O Matic anyway. Wes' actual guitar had nylon saddles on the T O M bridge. I thought about going that route . . . but, I put an ebony saddle on my L5 CES and I really like it. So, I'll do that to the Wes also.

[Ged]

Originally Posted by Bill C

the capacitor attached to the tone control? I used to own an ES-125 where playing a Bb always set off a mechanical buzzing from the tone cap.

"back buzz"? - when you play a certain chord a string on the headstock side of the fretting hand buzzes.

parts inside Tuneomatic bridge?

Thanks Bill; quick reply! You are right about the Bb. Always worse of a Bbmaj7. I'll get the tone control capicitor. Nothing concerning the headstock though. As for the bridge, I'll check tonight. (I need three hands to do this!)

[Ged]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

I'll tell you something that I came up with recently that I have never encountered before . . I just bought a brand new Gibson L5 Wes Montgomery. I noticed that the guitar actually sounded like it was gargling when I chorded it above the 9th fret. I though for sure that the wound strings were defective with loose windings. Then, a closer inspection told the story. The bridge base, while perfectly fitted to the top/sound board, was sanded a little too much on the back end . . causing the base and its posts to tilt towards the back of the guitar. That caused the ABR1 bridge to tilt also. The tilting of the ABR1 bridge, raised the front of it just enough so that the wound strings were touching, ever so slightly, the saddle adjustment screws. That was the vibration I was hearing. The Fix?? Three options; reverse the orientation of the ABR1 bridge so that the screws are on the tail piece side facing the back of the guitar . . . or, properly sand the bridge base so that it sits perfectly vertical and doesn't tilt towards the back of the guitar .. . or, replace the ABR1 with an ebony saddle. I'm choosing to correct the base as well as replace the ABR1 with an ebony saddle. I prefer that warmer tone over the Tune O Matic anyway. Wes' actual guitar had nylon saddles on the T O M bridge. I thought about going that route . . . but, I put an ebony saddle on my L5 CES and I really like it. So, I'll do that to the Wes also.

Well Patrick, you might have come up with something here. Although the angle of the bridge-to-table has been checked and adjusted - there was a gap which I could barely see - the point about the saddle adjustment screws could be relevant. I've just checked and although the strings miss the screws, the 6th seems very close the wire connector (can't think what the actual name for the part is!). I'll dismantle it later, reposition it, and see.

Many thanks.

[Bill C]

Originally Posted by Ged

Thanks Bill; quick reply! You are right about the Bb. Always worse of a Bbmaj7. I'll get the tone control capicitor. Nothing concerning the headstock though. As for the bridge, I'll check tonight. (I need three hands to do this!)

Just to clarify my "back buzz" suggestion. I meant that the string sympathetically vibrates between the fretting hand and the nut.

Good luck!

[Ged]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Just to clarify my "back buzz" suggestion. I meant that the string sympathetically vibrates between the fretting hand and the nut.

Good luck!

Thanks again. The original nut was replaced by my luthier when the strings were reprofiled for the very reason you mention.