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Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Wouldn't have had it any other way.
Dave Stewart had hair so big you could hide a VCR in there.
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08-13-2017 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Herbie
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
One of the best moves I made was when I got back into electric for a few years about ten years ago: I ran straight into the amp for three or four months straight to break the habit. Now I'm happy dropping a little chorusy syrup into the solo, or clean arpeggiated passage to fake a 12-string, but for my money, there's really nothing like a guitar plugged into a sweaty amp. If I want some faux-chorus I'll just shake the damned strings.
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
Last edited by whiskey02; 08-14-2017 at 09:19 AM.
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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I loved Metheny's tone from the early years, particularly the wash of sound he got live ( I might have seen him 7 or 8 times from the 70's through the 90's). Subtle or not, it was new and gorgeous. Not really cool to try to cop his tone, though, other than for academic reasons...he stands alone in so many ways.
Mike Landau had the definitive "tri-chorus" sound in the 80's and lent a beautiful shimmer to so many masterful pop and fusion tracks for so many people. It doesn't sound dated to me at all, just part of the fabric of some tunes, perfectly placed.
Allen Hinds is a guest on Jude Gold's podcast, "no Guitar is Safe" about a year ago, and gives some great examples of how he fattens his rhythm tone with a Fulltone Deja Vibe going into one side of a two amp/stereo setup, with the other signal dry. Subtle and oh so tasty, as only Allen can be.
But, some people put ketchup on EVERYTHING.
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I'm raised on Wes, Johnny Smith, Jim, Kenny Burrell, Herb Ellis with Peterson, Berney Kessell was a friend and mentor, so my sound, initially, was the 50s jazz sound, with a little reverb. As I heard musical styles change and the advent of digital technology, I found that some of the effects were useful. Chorus, for instance, in mono, actually puts the guitar more in tune for chord playing, as singers like a little. Lush reverbs and delays can make the guitar more orchestral, again something positive when working with singers or hornplayers as the only chordal instrument. Terje Rypdal, Frisell, Stern, Metheny and McLlaughlin manage to sound like themselves no matter what effects they are or are not using. On the other hand, Ted Greene and Ed Bickert never used more than reverb, and their sounds are lush and beautiful. I like the idea of a full palette of colors, so I use multi-effects processors and a Roland GR-55 on most gigs, bit I also play plenty of concerts on my unamplified nylon-string guitars.
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Originally Posted by ronjazz
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There is another instrument in Jazz that uses the "Chorus" effect all the time. Yes, one could say it is even impossible to switch it off there. It is called "The Piano". Most people got so used to it, that they don't even realize, that the sound of that instrument is defined by the chorus effect. Only when it's overdone - when the three strings per note are too much out of tune - people realize and ask a piano tuner person for help.
Same thing for guitar IMHO. Use chorus - if you want all the time - but tune it in a way people almost don't realize it is on. Or use it drastically overdone like Sco does it in recent times, more like a "Special FX" unit.
FYI: A piano without chorus effect is scarce but exists. It was called CP70, was made by Yamaha and had only one string per note. BTW most people 'd be surprised how thin and guitar-like a single string piano sounds.
From Wikipedia:
In music, a chorus effect (sometimes chorusing or chorused effect) occurs when individual sounds with approximately the same timbre, and very similar pitch converge and are perceived as one. While similar sounds coming from multiple sources can occur naturally, as in the case of a choir or string orchestra, it can also be simulated using an electronic effects unit or signal processing device.More information
More info: Chorus effect - Wikipedia
Last edited by DonEsteban; 08-14-2017 at 07:40 AM. Reason: typos
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Originally Posted by DonEsteban
The lute (with its double courses), mandolin and 12-string guitar are of course 'chorus' instruments too.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
The Tres is frequently used to play Montuno like ostinato motifs instead of a piano.
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Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
The first Marc Johnson/Bass Desires album (with Sco and Bill Frisell)
Sco's Grace Under Pressure and Still Warm albums
Miles Davis Star People (with Sco and Stern)
Lonnie Smith Afro Blue (with Abercrombie)
Some others:
Hiram Bullock on Carla Bley's Heavy Heart
Jim Hall (various things where he tried chorus, delay, loopers, and pitch-change/harmonizer effects)
Andy Summers on his Green Chimneys album (and his overall sound with the Police, though a lot of that is flanger rather than chorus)
A bunch of Steve Kahn stuff (no specific examples are coming to mind right now).
It probably bears repeating (or not ...) that Metheny's "chorus" sound (not the synth trumpet sound; the sound on stuff like Phase Dance) is not actually done with a chorus effect. Rather, he played with three amps and a complicated delay/pitch bend set-up. This creates a sort of chorusing effect in the air, rather than electronically in a box. If you ever heard him live in small venue, it was pretty amazing, but it didn't necessarily translate all that well to recordings (something he has said in interviews). I saw him live many times between '84 and the early 2000s and can testify to that. By the late 80s, he had considerably reduced the chorus-y-ness of this and gotten better at recording it, e.g., on Still Life Talking or We Live Here, which I think have great guitar sounds.
I'd also add that there's a big difference between a chorus pedal plugged into one amp and a true stereo chorus effect. I generally don't like the former (either for myself or on recordings, the above examples notwithstanding). But playing a true stereo chorus with two amps is a whole other story. I rarely actually do it because I don't like to schlep that much stuff around and/or can't get away with being that loud at home, but it's an amazing sound when you get it set up right.
John
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That was the magic of the venerable Roland Jazz Chorus amps, a beautiful clean sound with actual real "in the air" chorus from separate amp channels with a slight delay between them. It's intoxicating when you're playing through them, but as someone above said if it sounds like the right amount when you're playing, it's probably too much; sort of wanting a 3rd martini...
I don't have a chorus (although I had has a JC amp in the past), but I do use a Strymon El Capistan (a digital tape echo emulator) which has controls to emulate the imperfections of an old tape echo, and I keep the "Wow and Flutter" set for just a slight amount, which gives a very subtle chorus effect that fattens held chords, but you don't notice it for quicker rhythm or single note melody. I do like that a lot.
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I experimented with trying to get a subtle chorus effect but it didn't work for me.
Like the OP I associate chorus guitar effect with the 80's.
It never grabbed me as a guitar effect in fusion as much as it did in pop. I guess I like the extreme Police Prince chorus. It say's this in a chorus pedal!!
Don't know anything about Andy Summers gear but this seems to be more subtle;
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Originally Posted by John A.
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Originally Posted by DonEsteban
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Originally Posted by John A.
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Yeah typical stern tone with stereo chorus and a tad of delay...
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All this talk of chorus makes me miss my Roland JC-120 I stupidly sold. That was a good amp. The chorus was used very rarely. That being said it was by far the most lush sounding chorus I've heard. It was impossible to not play 80's pop songs while the chorus switch was on though.
I bought a boss CE-5 pedal as I missed that JC-120 sound. I have used that pedal maybe 6 times in the couple years I've owned it. Mainly for music theater pit orchestra work.
One effect that I love is phaser. Albert King made it sound very good.
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Originally Posted by rochroch
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Some interesting points of view and a general consensus that we all like different things and that it's ok not to agree.
My own take is that without doubt chorus works fine in rock and pop contexts - the Police example is good but also listen to the arpeggios on Bette Davies eyes or Time after Time....
However for jazz solo work I still prefer a "clean", "pure" sound in most contexts. That said, for rythm work with a piano soloist I sometimes switch on my MXR M234 with barely perceptible impacts on delay and pitch (rate and depth), but with a boost on the bass frequencies - for me this fills out the sound a bit more a gives it some "body", giving a more "solid" foundation for the pianist.
Once again it's down to what your ears like
;-)
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Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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Driving yesterday listening to my iPod on shuffle, Pat Metheny's Traveling Fast came on. I listened with this subject in mind. Brilliant playing and sound, I think. I hope to play more like that. Fast and totally relaxed. He perfectly shapes the song with his solo, playing the corners perfectly. And I loved the sound, with chorus mixed in. I don't care what anyone says. The sound of a midrangey, low mid guitar, plain, with maybe a little reverb, I hate. Boring. Holds little interest for me. Chorus, though it may be dated, I don't know and don't care, helps bring an aliveness to jazz guitar. Maybe it is the attempt to bring more voices to an otherwise monophonic sound. Overdone and 80s a lot. Yeah, sure. Technology always has the liability of dating you. So does technique like vibrato. So? One plays in the age one plays in. Regardless one will sound like one sounds in his own age.
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I'm with Henry - slight chorus or delay adds a fullness with that doubling/thickening and makes a thin, plain tone sound more complete to me.... Kreisberg with slight delay, of course Metheny, Robben Ford and Matt Schofield for blues players who use slight slapback to thicken things up, and of course, Holdsworths' 8 layer multitap delay (I still have 2 Magic Stomps, just because you can't do it with any other gear!).... Those tones all get me going.
Video: The Harmonic Minor Scale in Jazz
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