Godin Multiac duet Ambiance

[ronjazz]

You might try a TRS cable, I don't know the Schertler stuff, but that may be an issue. try another amp as well. I find that these guitars (I have the Multiac Nylon 7-string) sound great through a Bose Compact using an acoustic pre like the Zoom A2 or A3, gets rid of the quack and gives lots of nice options for reverb, delay and EQ.

[rpjazzguitar]

I guess you bought it used? Is that the stock electronics?

I'd suggest downloading the manual from the Godin site, if they have it - and seeing if they have anything relevant to say.

Pulling the jack partway out is probably causing the tip of the jack to touch the guitar's ground, unless this is a TRS (meaning two conductors in addition to the ground). Why that would make noise is for someone who actually knows something to say.

Might help to post photos of the innards, in case anybody here can spot a flaw.

[AlainJazz]

It's actually brand new, not used. So it has the stock electronics. I've also tried it through another amp and two different cables: same problem. The manual is pretty sparse. It only describes what the sliders do. It doesn't even mention the red LED. I've written an email to Godin now to see if they can help.

I'm wondering if there is indeed something wrong with the jack because when I pull out the cable, the red LED flashes for a second but it doesn't flash when I insert the cable. I've read somewhere that it is supposed to flash when it is engaged but in my case it is flashing when disengaged.


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[rpjazzguitar]

It's actually brand new, not used. So it has the stock electronics. I've also tried it through another amp and two different cables: same problem. The manual is pretty sparse. It only describes what the sliders do. It doesn't even mention the red LED. I've written an email to Godin now to see if they can help.

I'm wondering if there is indeed something wrong with the jack because when I pull out the cable, the red LED flashes for a second but it doesn't flash when I insert the cable. I've read somewhere that it is supposed to flash when it is engaged but in my case it is flashing when disengaged.


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That makes sense. I think those guitars are set up so that the power goes off if there's no cable plugged into the guitar. So that, somehow, the power connection is not being made when you plug in the cable. That would explain no sound whatsoever, perhaps including not hearing the usual hum when a cable isn't plugged into anything. It also might explain the noise with the jack partially inserted. At that point you might be powering on the circuit, but the tip of the jack isn't in contact with the output wire of the preamp, so, no music.

With a new guitar, that's squarely not your problem. If it was a used guitar and I was drunk enough to think I was a repairman, I'd try to jumper the battery connections at the output jack so that I knew for sure the thing was powered on and then see if it worked. Either the thing isn't wired right, or there's a mechanical connection not being made. But, frankly, I don't drink enough for that. There would be a possibility of screwing things up much worse.

Good luck with it. In the long run, this is going to get fixed and you're going to love the guitar.

[Woody Sound]

That makes sense. I think those guitars are set up so that the power goes off if there's no cable plugged into the guitar. So that, somehow, the power connection is not being made when you plug in the cable. That would explain no sound whatsoever, perhaps including not hearing the usual hum when a cable isn't plugged into anything. It also might explain the noise with the jack partially inserted. At that point you might be powering on the circuit, but the tip of the jack isn't in contact with the output wire of the preamp, so, no music.

With a new guitar, that's squarely not your problem. If it was a used guitar and I was drunk enough to think I was a repairman, I'd try to jumper the battery connections at the output jack so that I knew for sure the thing was powered on and then see if it worked. Either the thing isn't wired right, or there's a mechanical connection not being made. But, frankly, I don't drink enough for that. There would be a possibility of screwing things up much worse.

Good luck with it. In the long run, this is going to get fixed and you're going to love the guitar.

Try a different cable, try all the cables you can. Same exact same happened to me with one of my piezo guitars. Was at a gig, plugged in a nice cable I have, NOTHING. DEAD. I knew the battery was new and making contact. Started freaking out. Tried a different cable and it was fine. Turns out some cable plugs just aren't compatible with some TRS jacks. That particular cable just will not work with that guitar, works fine with every other guitar. I've learned not to use that cable with that guitar. Let us know if that's the problem.

[AlainJazz]

Try a different cable, try all the cables you can. Same exact same happened to me with one of my piezo guitars. Was at a gig, plugged in a nice cable I have, NOTHING. DEAD. I knew the battery was new and making contact. Started freaking out. Tried a different cable and it was fine. Turns out some cable plugs just aren't compatible with some TRS jacks. That particular cable just will not work with that guitar, works fine with every other guitar. I've learned not to use that cable with that guitar. Let us know if that's the problem.

I tried two different ones but thanks for the tip. I'll try a few more and report back.


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[mr. beaumont]

Bummer.

I'd go back to the dealer before going to Godin. Should be a simple exchange...Godin in general is very consistent, and it's a (albeit very nice) assembly line guitar, so there should be little variation from one to the next...

[AlainJazz]

Try a different cable, try all the cables you can. Same exact same happened to me with one of my piezo guitars. Was at a gig, plugged in a nice cable I have, NOTHING. DEAD. I knew the battery was new and making contact. Started freaking out. Tried a different cable and it was fine. Turns out some cable plugs just aren't compatible with some TRS jacks. That particular cable just will not work with that guitar, works fine with every other guitar. I've learned not to use that cable with that guitar. Let us know if that's the problem.

Hmm, I tried three different cables now, all of different types, neutrik connector, cheap connector: nada :-(

[AlainJazz]

Bummer.

I'd go back to the dealer before going to Godin. Should be a simple exchange...Godin in general is very consistent, and it's a (albeit very nice) assembly line guitar, so there should be little variation from one to the next...

The problem is that I bought it in Montreal a few weeks ago but I actually live in Germany now. I don't know of any dealer around here.

[destinytot]

The problem is that I bought it in Montreal a few weeks ago but I actually live in Germany now. I don't know of any dealer around here.

I agree that you should go through the dealer. Sorry you've had this problem, Alain - and hope you get it sorted out soon!

[rpjazzguitar]

One way this works is that the female is a stereo jack and the male is mono.

The male has tip, ring and sleeve. Sleeve is ground. Tip is music. Ring is in between.

You then connect the battery + terminal to the ring tab on the female jack and the - to the sleeve.

Then, when you plug in the male, the sleeve connects the battery + (since the female ring just touches the male sleeve).

There are other ways this gets done, but this one might be it.

The easiest way to screw this up and produce no sound at all, would be if the male sleeve didn't contact both the female ring and sleeve. Sleeve to sleeve contact would be easy to create by wiggling the jack around. But, ring to sleeve would depend on the female prong actually touching the barrel of the male jack. The easiest way to sabotage that would be to bend it back so it didn't touch. In that situation, wiggling the jack might not produce contact.

And, therefore, the very simplest thing to do to check this would be to bend the female ring prong towards the center, so that inserting the male jack can't possibly miss it. And, then, plug everything in and wiggle the jack.

[Frank67]

The problem is that I bought it in Montreal a few weeks ago but I actually live in Germany now. I don't know of any dealer around here.

I don't know where you live but the Musicstore in Cologne carries that model. They also have a fairly competent repair shop that I have had good experience with over the years.

Good luck!

[AlainJazz]

One way this works is that the female is a stereo jack and the male is mono.

The male has tip, ring and sleeve. Sleeve is ground. Tip is music. Ring is in between.

You then connect the battery + terminal to the ring tab on the female jack and the - to the sleeve.

Then, when you plug in the male, the sleeve connects the battery + (since the female ring just touches the male sleeve).

There are other ways this gets done, but this one might be it.

The easiest way to screw this up and produce no sound at all, would be if the male sleeve didn't contact both the female ring and sleeve. Sleeve to sleeve contact would be easy to create by wiggling the jack around. But, ring to sleeve would depend on the female prong actually touching the barrel of the male jack. The easiest way to sabotage that would be to bend it back so it didn't touch. In that situation, wiggling the jack might not produce contact.

And, therefore, the very simplest thing to do to check this would be to bend the female ring prong towards the center, so that inserting the male jack can't possibly miss it. And, then, plug everything in and wiggle the jack.

Thanks RP. I've opened up the jack to take a look but it all looks very snug and well fitting. In fact every bit of electronics in the guitar looks really well put together and clean. No sloppy work to be seen anywhere. I'm really stumped. It has a fishman aura unit inside. The only thing I can think of is that it might need a reset of some kind but I don't see how to do that.


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[AlainJazz]

I don't know where you live but the Musicstore in Cologne carries that model. They also have a fairly competent repair shop that I have had good experience with over the years.

Good luck!

Thanks for the tip. I'm in Stuttgart. I'm sure Godin will tell me to send it somewhere. Let's see.


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[rpjazzguitar]

Can you pull the female out far enough to see exactly what happens when you plug in the male?

Can you get a meter on the female-ring-tab to see if there's power there? (Assuming that the thing is switched that way).

But, if there's nothing obviously visually wrong, then it may be something in the circuit. I'd still do some wiggle and flex with everything plugged in. But even if you isolate a problem, it's going to end up in a warranty shop.

[AlainJazz]

Can you pull the female out far enough to see exactly what happens when you plug in the male?

Can you get a meter on the female-ring-tab to see if there's power there? (Assuming that the thing is switched that way).

But, if there's nothing obviously visually wrong, then it may be something in the circuit. I'd still do some wiggle and flex with everything plugged in. But even if you isolate a problem, it's going to end up in a warranty shop.

Thanks. I'll try tonight and report back.


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[AlainJazz]

Here's a short video I just made showing the jack:

Jeff, does the LED on yours go on briefly when you pull the jack out, or when you put it in?

[mr. beaumont]

Here's a short video I just made showing the jack:

Jeff, does the LED on yours go on briefly when you pull the jack out, or when you put it in?

I never noticed, I'll try it and look when I get home today.

[rpjazzguitar]

I never noticed, I'll try it and look when I get home today.

Can you get the light to stay on if you hold the jack part way in?

Here's something you might do, seriously, lick the red and black wires with your tongue, at the same time.

Same as "tasting" a 9v battery. You should feel a little jolt That will tell you that the ring tab has juice.

Another way would be to jumper it with a short bit of wire -- to make absolutely certain they are connecting.

Or, pull it out, plug in the guitar, turn everything on and then touch the red and black with a paper clip or something to make sure they're connected.

In writing this, I'm assuming that black is ground and the red has to be connected to it to allow electricity to flow into the PC board.

I might be missing something.

[docsteve]

If you are in Stuttgart, try Soundland in Fellbach. Musikinstrumente mit Zubehör im Soundland Store in Stuttgart oder online kaufen. There is also a significant amount of luthiers in the area.


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[AlainJazz]

Can you get the light to stay on if you hold the jack part way in?

Here's something you might do, seriously, lick the red and black wires with your tongue, at the same time.

Same as "tasting" a 9v battery. You should feel a little jolt That will tell you that the ring tab has juice.

Another way would be to jumper it with a short bit of wire -- to make absolutely certain they are connecting.

Or, pull it out, plug in the guitar, turn everything on and then touch the red and black with a paper clip or something to make sure they're connected.

In writing this, I'm assuming that black is ground and the red has to be connected to it to allow electricity to flow into the PC board.

I might be missing something.

If I only put in the jack part way in, I can get the LED to blink but no sound comes out. I'll have to try the "taste test" later today :-)


Below is the response I got back from Godin last night. The cable I'm using only has one black ring. That's a mono cable right? Also, I still don't know for sure if the LED blink means the preamp is turning on or if it means that it is turning off. They didn't answer that question. The Godin tech mentions two batteries but there is only one.


"Are you using a standard mono 1/4" cable? (you won't get a signal if you use a TRS stereo cable)
make sure both batteries have at least 7V of power. There can be problems with the preamp when the battery level is under 7V.

Your guitar unfortunately won't be covered by the warranty in Germany as it was not purchased through a dealer that deals with our distributor in Germany. If the problem persists, you'll have to take your guitar to a repair tech to have the electronics inspecetd.
I've included a wiring diagram in the attachment."

[AlainJazz]

If you are in Stuttgart, try Soundland in Fellbach. Musikinstrumente mit Zubehör im Soundland Store in Stuttgart oder online kaufen. There is also a significant amount of luthiers in the area.

Thanks docsteve. I have a good Luthier in Tübingen. If I can't get it to work, I'll have to take it to him. I just hope it is something simple and it's not the preamp broken or something. I really can't figure out why it doesn't work. I've really babied it since I tried it in the store and it worked fine there.

[rpjazzguitar]

If I only put in the jack part way in, I can get the LED to blink but no sound comes out. I'll have to try the "taste test" later today :-)


Below is the response I got back from Godin last night. The cable I'm using only has one black ring. That's a mono cable right? Also, I still don't know for sure if the LED blink means the preamp is turning on or if it means that it is turning off. They didn't answer that question. The Godin tech mentions two batteries but there is only one.


"Are you using a standard mono 1/4" cable? (you won't get a signal if you use a TRS stereo cable)
make sure both batteries have at least 7V of power. There can be problems with the preamp when the battery level is under 7V.

Your guitar unfortunately won't be covered by the warranty in Germany as it was not purchased through a dealer that deals with our distributor in Germany. If the problem persists, you'll have to take your guitar to a repair tech to have the electronics inspecetd.
I've included a wiring diagram in the attachment."

The jack in your video looked like a mono. It has a tip and a black ring near it. Then the barrel of the jack is uninterrupted. So, the tip connects to the hot lead and the rest of it (sleeve) connects to ground.

Their design uses a stereo female and a mono male. The mono male sleeve touches both the ground and the lead from the battery -- thereby connecting them. That connection allows the PC board to get power.

[AlainJazz]

My luthier had time this evening so I brought it over. He couldn't directly identify the problem but did notice that moving the volume slider produced some white noise. That means the preamp is probably working but not getting any signal from the piezo. The connections looked ok at first glance. He's going to have a closer look at it tomorrow. His guess is that either the piezo is broken (rare, but can happen) or there is a loose contact somewhere.

I should add that my further exchanges with Godin's tech support have been less than stellar, and quite disappointing. Terse and not very helpful answers. It's a shame really. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth.


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[Woody Sound]

The led is supposed to go on when the battery is getting low. I think....