Purchasing help for Jazz Amp

**medblues** · 07-22-2017, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter

I am with you! It's not the worst amp but it's not my first choice either. Many non-jazz-guitarists believe that jazz guitarists don't really care for amps as long as they are clean and not heavy in weight.
From my experience you often waste your time if you want advice from staff in a store when you're interested in an amp for jazz. And since the Roland says Jazz Chorus it is mostly their first offer.

JC-120 is one of those amps whose simulated sound is better than how the actual amp sounds (based on the Line 6 and the Micro Cube modeling I have).

**marcwhy** · 07-22-2017, 01:37 PM

Buy the Quilter Aviator 8 that's been for sale in the Sale section!!

And have fun in school.

**Cunamara** · 07-22-2017, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Why folks think the Roland is a great jazz guitar amp is a mystery to me. Just because it's called Jazz Chorus?

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I've used one a couple of times and it was one of the brightest amps I have ever heard. And loud like a Fedner Twin is loud- I think I never had the volume past 2. If you need to fill a big room, a Twin or a JC120 would get it done.

**Cunamara** · 07-22-2017, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by silvertonebetty

But none of those are jazz amps and all them tube amps suck. Don't get me wrong I love my mesa but there is so much upkeep to them

So much upkeep? Assuming you use it for a couple of hours a day, you might have to replace the power tubes every couple of years (unless you are gigging six nights a week at full volume). Vintage amp designs were pretty gentle on preamp tubes, I have had a '72 or so Pro Reverb for 30+ years and it still has the RCA preamp tubes in it. More modern amps with cascading gain stages go through preamp tubes faster, I guess.

Takes but a few minutes to change tubes and a few minutes to rebias, if that's something your amp can do. Every 20 years or so you might need to replace caps, unless you bought caps made during the Great Capacitor Plague or are buying cheaply made Asian caps. So your tech might see the amp occasionally and you can change your own tubes every so often. An amp that needs more attention than that might just be a bad amp.

**tlbender3** · 07-22-2017, 02:46 PM

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I appreciate the advice and insight. I ended up going with the HRD because I was able to get a pretty good deal ($350) and I ordered a JJ 12at7 tube to switch into the amp, now I just have to research exactly which tube to switch it with, thanks again! Feel free to keep discussing on this post its always fun to read what people have to say about gear.

**silvertonebetty** · 07-22-2017, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

So much upkeep? Assuming you use it for a couple of hours a day, you might have to replace the power tubes every couple of years (unless you are gigging six nights a week at full volume). Vintage amp designs were pretty gentle on preamp tubes, I have had a '72 or so Pro Reverb for 30+ years and it still has the RCA preamp tubes in it. More modern amps with cascading gain stages go through preamp tubes faster, I guess.

Takes but a few minutes to change tubes and a few minutes to rebias, if that's something your amp can do. Every 20 years or so you might need to replace caps, unless you bought caps made during the Great Capacitor Plague or are buying cheaply made Asian caps. So your tech might see the amp occasionally and you can change your own tubes every so often. An amp that needs more attention than that might just be a bad amp.

This is the second time I've had to replace tubes in the mesa in two years

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**silvertonebetty** · 07-22-2017, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by tlbender3

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I appreciate the advice and insight. I ended up going with the HRD because I was able to get a pretty good deal ($350) and I ordered a JJ 12at7 tube to switch into the amp, now I just have to research exactly which tube to switch it with, thanks again! Feel free to keep discussing on this post its always fun to read what people have to say about gear.

Great price.ps I truly would rather a tube over solid state. I'm just a poor boy whom can't afford to the $300 to retube my amp

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**rpjazzguitar** · 07-22-2017, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Why folks think the Roland is a great jazz guitar amp is a mystery to me. Just because it's called Jazz Chorus?

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I gig with a JC55.

It isn't the best amp I ever heard. HRD, among others, sounds better.

But, the JC55 sounds good enough, is loud enough for what I do, is reliable and, most important, weighs only 26 lbs. It's small enough to fit in my rolling plastic file box ($25) along with all the other gear I use, allowing me to load-in in a single trip.

As an aside, sometimes the JC55 sounds terrific and sometimes I hate the way it sounds. It depends on the room, the group, the amp placement and, for all I know, sunspots. My feeling is that no matter how much I obsess about one amp vs another in ideal conditions, what I'm really looking for is the amp that will sound best across a broad range of conditions -- and I have no idea how to determine that. Given that, I might as well take the one that weighs the least.

I used to think it was too icy sounding for a live room (lots of hard surfaces), but I recently played a gig in a well upholstered bar (cloth couches and chairs) and the amp sounded like a dentist's drill in my head. Other times, at similar volume, it sounds great. I haven't figured it out.

Recommendation: 30 day return privilege on whatever you buy.

**silvertonebetty** · 07-22-2017, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

I gig with a JC55.

It isn't the best amp I ever heard. HRD, among others, sounds better.

But, the JC55 sounds good enough, is loud enough for what I do, is reliable and, most important, weighs only 26 lbs. It's small enough to fit in my rolling plastic file box ($25) along with all the other gear I use, allowing me to load-in in a single trip.

As an aside, sometimes the JC55 sounds terrific and sometimes I hate the way it sounds. It depends on the room, the group, the amp placement and, for all I know, sunspots. My feeling is that no matter how much I obsess about one amp vs another in ideal conditions, what I'm really looking for is the amp that will sound best across a broad range of conditions -- and I have no idea how to determine that. Given that, I might as well take the one that weighs the least.

I used to think it was too icy sounding for a live room (lots of hard surfaces), but I recently played a gig in a well upholstered bar (cloth couches and chairs) and the amp sounded like a dentist's drill in my head. Other times, at similar volume, it sounds great. I haven't figured it out.

Recommendation: 30 day return privilege on whatever you buy.

Good to know

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**henryrobinett** · 07-22-2017, 04:05 PM

I've used one a few times. Festivals and gigs where they provide a backline. If it's jazz they will almost invariably have a JC. It's ok. It does the job. But I don't think it's particularly a great JAZZ guitar amp. It works and does the job.

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**Little Jay** · 07-22-2017, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by tlbender3

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I appreciate the advice and insight. I ended up going with the HRD because I was able to get a pretty good deal ($350) and I ordered a JJ 12at7 tube to switch into the amp, now I just have to research exactly which tube to switch it with, thanks again! Feel free to keep discussing on this post its always fun to read what people have to say about gear.

Congratz, not a bad choice. They have the potential to be great amps, but to get there they need modding (circuit changes), but that is just my opinion (I have the Blues Deluxe, fairly similar and it's one of best my amps after modding). But I don't want to bias your judgement, so first play the beejeezus out of it and see how you like it.

In the GB the 12at7 goes in V1, that's the far most right tube looking from the back. Don't apply to much force pulling the old tube and placing the new one, the solder joints of the tube-socket can crack (been there, done that).

If you want to experiment: try the 12at7 also in V3 (phase inverter), that's the most left preamp tube (the small ones) looking at the back. It won't hurt anything.

If you experience boomy bass, using the drive channel with very low gain and volume up can be very useful. It's voiced a little different.

Strange as it may sound: also try the setting with all tone controls on 11 (yes they go to 11!) and control the highs with the tone knob on the guitar. I always liked that on my Blues Deluxe (before I modded it ;-).

**Cavalier** · 07-22-2017, 10:42 PM

I recently played a few HRDs in my semihollow comparisons and thought they were pretty consistent and a good average of what you want. Careful replacing tubes as I think the sockets are mounted on the circuit boards.

**Papawooly** · 07-25-2017, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by tlbender3

I also have the option to get a Fender Blues Deluxe and I have heard these are similar to the HRD's but with a few differences in tone. Does anyone know much about these?

I own a Fender Blues Deluxe and I played in a VERY LOUD rock/roll band for YEARS with a clean tone and it held it's own very nicely, never a hint of a "growl" with my settings (that I set in stone in with a sharpie)
not light, but not overly heavy, played many gigs/jams/practices never one bit of trouble. It has been on the sidelines since I entered my "Jazz Phase" and use my Polytone, but am excited to bring it back out after hearing that Ron Jackson uses a Hot Rod Deluxe to get his sound.

Also had (in the Eighties) a JC120... Great for matching the sound on "Saved by Zero" but was a wimpy/fluffy
napkin compared to my Fender.

**JazzNote** · 07-25-2017, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by silvertonebetty

This is the second time I've had to replace tubes in the mesa in two years

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I have played Boogie Mark III's for about a whole decade starting in the nineties, often had two of them running stereo. It seemed to me that some of the tubes lasted for a couple of months only. I spent a fortune on replacing them, my guess is that i could have bought a few good solid state amps for the money spent on them. I do believe that the Mark III circuit was very demanding for the tubes. With no other tube amp i experienced anything similar. In fact, the tubes which i took out of the Boogie because of malfunction could still be used in the Twin Reverb "forever". This is true for the 6L6's and the preamp tubes.

**Woody Sound** · 07-25-2017, 04:09 PM

I don't want to derail the topic, (but I guess I am...). I've owned MANY amps i my long playing life, both tube and SS. Three tube amps that I owned and gigged with for extended periods (years) were a Fender Twin and two different Music Mans. (Music MEN?) I never once had a problem with or had to replace a tube. Just food for thought.

**Durban** · 07-25-2017, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Why folks think the Roland is a great jazz guitar amp is a mystery to me. Just because it's called Jazz Chorus?

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I second that in fact the JC120 are pretty crap HEAVY that distinct sound that so many licked back then,
Reliable, powerful good chorus yes, but BIG very heavy and seriously expensive for a pile of second hand electronics. If looking at Roland the old orig Cube 60 & 40 78-84 are good. Especially with Lil Buddy & cannabis Rex inside

Jkniff26 · 07-27-2017, 06:34 PM

That's not a princeton it just has the name. Real Princeton is a great little amp, but takes two to be heard in a club setting, unless it's all ballads I guess. I would take the Peavey if forced to choose. Love my Henrickson Jazz Amp though. Cuts through anything loud and clear.

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**Herbie** · 07-28-2017, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by silvertonebetty

Great price.ps I truly would rather a tube over solid state. I'm just a poor boy whom can't afford to the $300 to retube my amp

I am so poor that I HAVE to play with tube amps: if something breaks You (or my tech) can fix it and I don't have to buy a new amp. (As You should if a modern cheap dsp amp breaks.)

I have played with tube amps (Vox's, Fenders) about 40 years and even in the busiest years I never needed to change the tubes more than once a two years.

There is '50s/'60s tube alps still with their original tubes and playing great. The retubing costs and inconveniences are not so big people think.

Congrats for the OP for the HRD! They are excellent amps.

**rpjazzguitar** · 07-28-2017, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by JazzNote

I have played Boogie Mark III's for about a whole decade starting in the nineties, often had two of them running stereo. It seemed to me that some of the tubes lasted for a couple of months only. I spent a fortune on replacing them, my guess is that i could have bought a few good solid state amps for the money spent on them. I do believe that the Mark III circuit was very demanding for the tubes. With no other tube amp i experienced anything similar. In fact, the tubes which i took out of the Boogie because of malfunction could still be used in the Twin Reverb "forever". This is true for the 6L6's and the preamp tubes.

I have a Mark III also. Iirc, there was a factory update about the tubes. By fading memory, one of the tube options that the amp supposedly supported resulted in going through tubes quickly. It may have been EL84 (or similar number) in the outer sockets - I don't remember the details. I used the 6L6s and they lasted for years, but pretty light use for some of them. Anyway, the factory put out a notice on it.

Until recently, I had some of the original tubes in an Ampeg 64 Reverberocket and they sounded fine.

**ccroft** · 07-29-2017, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

I have a Mark III also. Iirc, there was a factory update about the tubes. By fading memory, one of the tube options that the amp supposedly supported resulted in going through tubes quickly.

Must be some truth in this. I played a 100 watt Mark 1or2 (bought in '76) for about 15 years. Full time gigging or rehearsing most every day, often up to 6 hours per day. It's possible I replaced one or two tubes but it seems to me I never replaced any. Traded it for a lighter Studio 22+ in '91. I only re-tubed that one when bringing it out of a 10 year hibernation, just because it seemed like I should. Saved the old ones for back up.

I constantly read about the cost of tube amp maintenance around here. I've never done any to speak of in almost 40 years of playing them. (played Fender before the Mesas)

I guess it's true what they say... Your Milage May Vary.

**Jonathan0996** · 07-29-2017, 09:04 PM

Of the three you mentioned, the Blues Deluxe and Hot Rod Deluxe probably have enough power and headroom for an ensemble (depending on the ensemble). The solid state Princeton isn't going to give you that Fender tube amp sound that the others will.

The Roland is a pretty heavy amp and a somewhat controversial one. People either love them or hate them. I'm not a fan myself, and if you like the Fender tube amp sound I don't think it'll ring your chimes.

You should consider weight; the two "Deluxe" amps you mentioned aren't light. Are you going to be moving this amp around a lot? I suggest going to the music store and picking up each of those amps. If those are too heavy, I'd go with Marc's suggestion. The Quilter is light, clean, powerful and is priced low enough that you can't really go wrong.

Good luck with the ensemble and have a blast!