D'Angelico or D'Aquisto - A good choice today?

[sgcim]

I’ll preface this by saying I got pushback on another site for the diatribe I wrote in respect to the “ new “ D’Angelico models. I’m sixty one years old, been playing for sixty years . ( Not that that means anything ,as we all know ) I’m from Rochester ,the jazz Capital no one is aware of. Think the Pithod Club,and some of the Eastman School musicians .
I digress. When I started playing, all the players I knew were much older than me, I was possibly fifteen and they in their fifties. They mentored me,they also all refused to give me lessons. The reason being I was so passionate about the craft of playing well. They would say just come and watch while we teach others that don’t have your enthusiasm. They did give me sage advice however. You have a fourth finger,use it ! “ Your not Django “
the two that really took me under their wings played early D’Angelico New Yorkers and Excels and all owned Gibson L5s as well. These were all fifties models , the real deal.
Ill get to the point,honest. So I was rather reared on them, although I never owned a DAgelico, but did own an L5 .
Recently ( the past few years ) I started seeing ads for DAngelico Guitars . I couldn’t believe it. Thought someone in New York had possibly kept the good faith and handed down this generation of craftsmanship. The first picture I saw was a New Yorker. From the photos it looked spot on. I had no idea of the price, but saw rock musicians endorsing them, it made no sense . ( I think there are some phenomenal players in the pop field, but they were not the ones endorsing these Guitars . So I got curious and see they are selling these at the Guitar Center , it was becoming more of a disconnect by the minute. A New Yorker for $1200. ? I knew the game was up, where in Asia were these being made . I went to the G.C. and they had a bunch of different models. I played four of them , this was in the past year. I’ve never played a piece of junk like those before. The finish must have been a 1/4 inch thick. The action and intonation were both terrible . Then I saw the “ Holy Grail “ a GRATEFUL DEAD model. I didn’t walk out ,I ran. This is insulting on every level. We have become a country where everything from making music,and making Guitars is all about profit and nothing more . Who the hell sold out the name without having oversight as to the quality of the Guitars . I’m a big fan of the E series Japanese Stratocasters . The 82-84 Fugi Jen are as good as anything ever made in the USA . Change the pups and caps and you’ve got a maple neck 57 Strat, of P bass.
The Guitars I played at GC were NOT made in Japan, rather Korea .
So today I saw a D’Aquiato New Yorker on Craigslist . $2200. It too looks like the original. I’m going to look at it tomorrow. I know automatically if it’s not Japanese I’m not interested . The seller claims he doesn’t know where it’s made, that’s not a good sign. The question is this. It appears many of you are familiar with these Guitars . What is your honest take on them ? I see the tops are pressed and not carved , that’s a rather big deal when you’re talking $2200. I also understand, as none are made by hand, like the Originals ,that you may have a lot of discrepancies between say three of the same models. If by chance it is made in Japan, and the craftsmanship ,playability,intonation and sound are great, how far down can I go to beat him up on the price : ) ? Are the D’Aquistos in a different league than the new DeAngelicos ? I’m sure they farm out the product to different distributors, is there one maker that is hands above the rest in Japan ? Fugi Gen was the way to go with Fender , I have no idea if they are still producing Guitars en masse .
Any thoughts would be appreciated. I apologize for leading you through my entire life’s backstory before I got to the one paragraph question. One must rememeber , you’re possibly all much younger than me, you’re in the know , I’m an old outlier .
Thank You
all the best
jake

I mentioned the 'new' D'Angelicos to Roger Borys once, and he corrected me calling them "Illegal D'Angelicos".
The scuzz that make them didn't get John's permission to use the name, they just used the name.
Recently Bucky Pizzarelli made a video commercial for them, with scenes of John D'Angelico's old shop, linking them to "Real D'Angelicos". Rather misleading if you ask me...

[Stringswinger]

I mentioned the 'new' D'Angelicos to Roger Borys once, and he corrected me calling them "Illegal D'Angelicos".
The scuzz that make them didn't get John's permission to use the name, they just used the name.
Recently Bucky Pizzarelli made a video commercial for them, with scenes of John D'Angelico's old shop, linking them to "Real D'Angelicos". Rather misleading if you ask me...

There is nothing illegal at play here. Just some immoral stuff, but still legal.

When John D'Angelico died, his heirs sold the business (which included the legal rights to use the name D'Angelico guitars and D'Angelico strings) to Jimmy D'Aquisto and a partner (Jimmy needed a partner to come up with the money that the D'Angelico family wanted). From what I have read, the partner was a less than honest attorney (hence my use of the term immoral, above) and eventually Jimmy D'Aquisto and the shyster had a parting of the ways. The shyster sold strings under the D'Angelico brandname for years (they were good strings, I used them in the 70's and 80's) and eventually sold the name to GHS strings. In the 90's GHS licensed very high quality D'Angelico replicas (I own one as does Big Mike, both of our guitars came from the collection of Patrick2). GHS sold the name in the late 90's to the Ferolito family (Arizona Ice Tea owners) and they have imported D'Angelico branded guitars from Japan and Korea as well as made replicas in California and New York (where they are still making hand carved replicas). While many in the archtop world may not like what the Ferolitos have done with D'Angelico guitars, they have many fans, and it is all perfectly legal.

Jimmy D'Aquisto licensed the use of his name to Hagstrom and Fender during his lifetime (and designed and trained guitar makers in conjunction with those products). I presume that the D'Aquisto guitars made since his death are either under license from his heirs or the heirs have sold the name.

[Arnesto]

I have a d'aquisto jazzline Made in terada Japan and I love it, go and get one

[JGinNJ]

I bought my Korean D'Angelico EXL-1 last year, it was a demo from a small store that was discontinuing them. The quality is excellent, perhaps one little speck in the finish. I've read different reports here, though, about the quality of one's GC recently discounted.
I visited the D'Angelico showroom in NYC last year, it was fun and informative. Yes, they are marketing to a younger crowd and rockers- makes sense, business-wise. They had a huge amount of guitars on the walls, most don't seem to get played, and some models, like the semi-hollows and flat-tops, are just average. I did try a luthier-built Excel, probably the best guitar in the place- and for $18K it should be. The Premier line is the new, cheaper one.

[rolijen]

When John D'Angelico died, his heirs sold the business...

Jimmy D'Aquisto licensed the use of his name to Hagstrom and Fender during his lifetime (and designed and trained guitar makers in conjunction with those products). I presume that the D'Aquisto guitars made since his death are either under license from his heirs or the heirs have sold the name.

In researching the ‘new’ D’Aquisto Guitars back in the early 2000s, I learned that Aria purchased the rights to distribute guitars under the D’Aquisto name. As part of the deal, Aria also acquired designs and specs as well as the materials and unfinished guitars in Jimmy’s workshop.

With this reference material in their possession, the luthiers at Terada were able to build a superb tribute to the New Yorker for few years. The ones from the early 2000s are very good and are built to a very high quality standard. That’s based on my 14 years of owning one.

Regarding the build quality of the Korean D’Angelico Excel, it isn’t as good as the Terada D’Aquisto but for 1/4 the cost, they’re very much worth it. They are great looking, sounding and playing laminate archtops that punch above their weight acoustically. I love them. Of course they’re not in the same league as a real John D’Angelico-built Guitar. But that doesn’t make them bad.

The best thing about this point in time is that there are many great options available at every price point for hobbyists and gigging guitarists alike. We are very lucky.

Roli

[Easy2grasp]

This Fender D'Aquisto may have been one of the last guitars that Jimmy built according to the description provided by the auction company. IIRC the opening bid was around $14,000, and the price didn't climb high enough so the lot was passed. Maybe it will show up again next time.
1994 Fender D'''Aquisto Blonde Ultra Archtop, #002

[sgcim]

There is nothing illegal at play here. Just some immoral stuff, but still legal.

When John D'Angelico died, his heirs sold the business (which included the legal rights to use the name D'Angelico guitars and D'Angelico strings) to Jimmy D'Aquisto and a partner (Jimmy needed a partner to come up with the money that the D'Angelico family wanted). From what I have read, the partner was a less than honest attorney (hence my use of the term immoral, above) and eventually Jimmy D'Aquisto and the shyster had a parting of the ways. The shyster sold strings under the D'Angelico brandname for years (they were good strings, I used them in the 70's and 80's) and eventually sold the name to GHS strings. In the 90's GHS licensed very high quality D'Angelico replicas (I own one as does Big Mike, both of our guitars came from the collection of Patrick2). GHS sold the name in the late 90's to the Ferolito family (Arizona Ice Tea owners) and they have imported D'Angelico branded guitars from Japan and Korea as well as made replicas in California and New York (where they are still making hand carved replicas). While many in the archtop world may not like what the Ferolitos have done with D'Angelico guitars, they have many fans, and it is all perfectly legal.

Jimmy D'Aquisto licensed the use of his name to Hagstrom and Fender during his lifetime (and designed and trained guitar makers in conjunction with those products). I presume that the D'Aquisto guitars made since his death are either under license from his heirs or the heirs have sold the name.

,
You may be right about all of that, but if you're ever in RB's shop
don't bring it up!

[2bornot2bop]

These D'Aquisto Japan models have been selling used between $2k and $3k like forever.

Remember, a lot of forumite's can't afford or don't want to spend even $3k for a MIA carved guitar, and a LOT of your fellow members have recently purchased the GC D'A's during the GC blowout.

Most of you saw the threads both here, and in the for sale section. So why all the disrespect towards those members and the gear they have purchased? Your double standards are showing.

SS is wrong regarding the resale market of used Japanese guitars. It's still fairly strong on most anything from Aria, and lawsuit era guitars. I personally would not spend $3k for a Japanese D'Aquisto, mainly because I can purchase an American carved for that price. But even at $3k those guitars do sell, and there are a lot of them sold by dealers who being dealers even list them above $3k.

The craigslist D'Aquisto, if in decent shape, most are in great shape, is at minimum worth the $2200 asking price. This in the opinion from someone who bought and sold way too many guitars. If I have that specific guitar to sell, and it's in good shape, it's not selling for less. 2b's 2cents.

[Stringswinger]

These D'Aquisto Japan models have been selling used between $2k and $3k like forever.

Remember, a lot of forumite's can't afford or don't want to spend even $3k for a MIA carved guitar, and a LOT of your fellow members have recently purchased the GC D'A's during the GC blowout.

Most of you saw the threads both here, and in the for sale section. So why all the disrespect towards those members and the gear they have purchased? Your double standards are showing.

SS is wrong regarding the resale market of used Japanese guitars. It's still fairly strong on most anything from Aria, and lawsuit era guitars. I personally would not spend $3k for a Japanese D'Aquisto, mainly because I can purchase an American carved for that price. But even at $3k those guitars do sell, and there are a lot of them sold by dealers who being dealers even list them above $3k.

The craigslist D'Aquisto, if in decent shape, most are in great shape, is at minimum worth the $2200 asking price. This in the opinion from someone who bought and sold way too many guitars. If I have that specific guitar to sell, and it's in good shape, it's not selling for less. 2b's 2cents.

2B,

A few years ago, I bought 3 Ibanez guitars that were made in Japan. When I went to sell them, I broke even or lost a few bucks on each one. When I hold a Gibson for a few years, I usually have sold them at a profit. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. And perhaps my experience is no longer valid, but I put it out there for all who want to know. I have played a couple of D'Aquisto copies, both at the same guitar show and was very unimpressed, especially considering the 3K price tag. Rob's video in a thread above tells me that there must be some fine ones (and all three of my Ibanez guitars were excellent instruments) out there. Perhaps the Craiglist D'Aquisto is well worth the $2200. Caveat Emptor applies, as always.

[2bornot2bop]

2B,

A few years ago, I bought 3 Ibanez guitars that were made in Japan. When I went to sell them, I broke even or lost a few bucks on each one. When I hold a Gibson for a few years, I usually have sold them at a profit. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. And perhaps my experience is no longer valid, but I put it out there for all who want to know. I have played a couple of D'Aquisto copies, both at the same guitar show and was very unimpressed, especially considering the 3K price tag. Rob's video in a thread above tells me that there must be some fine ones (and all three of my Ibanez guitars were excellent instruments) out there. Perhaps the Craiglist D'Aquisto is well worth the $2200. Caveat Emptor applies, as always.

If you're only selling locally of course you're lucky to break even. 2b has never lost a cent on a single guitar, and I've owned and sold several Japanese guitars, and as many from Peerless in Korea. 3 Vestex D'A's, 4 Aria's, 3 Ibanez "lawsuit era" archtops. Selling is all in the presentation. It's not rocket science.

[nopedals]

IME you are better off shopping for guitars that are great rather than great for the price. You actually end up spending less that way in the end. The only experience I have with the model talked about here is with the MIK one. Given a choice between a plain samick and a tarted up samick with a famous builder's name on it, I would just walk away.

Regarding the MIJs, for the same price, you can get an old Gibson. Not saying one is better than the other, but it is a consideration. If the $2200 one is a great guitar, and, like Rob, you were able to get a price closer to the samick price, that would be an easier call.

[GeoX]

I understand this thread is old but I thought of posting, hoping someone could help.

I am looking at the Premier line of DAngelico EXL-1 guitars. Their list price is 749 euros I believe, but I found a bargain a lot cheaper.

I am just starting to learn jazz guitar and I am wondering if this would be a good choice for the money.
Is this line of guitars worth a price around 400 euros?

Thank you in advance.
George

[takauya]

You can regularly find Terada made D'angelico and D'aquisto arch tops (I call them TeraDangelico or TeraDaquisto) at very reasonable prices on Japanese yahoo auction. About the half of what they are sold in the US or Europe. It's interesting to see how a lot of old Ibanez guitars are overpriced in other countries as well.

[GeoX]

You can regularly find Terada made D'angelico and D'aquisto arch tops (I call them TeraDangelico or TeraDaquisto) at very reasonable prices on Japanese yahoo auction. About the half of what they are sold in the US or Europe. It's interesting to see how a lot of old Ibanez guitars are overpriced in other countries as well.

I was thinking of buying from a European shop which has a good bargain. But are these Korean models worth even the lower price?

[takauya]

I was thinking of buying from a European shop which has a good bargain. But are these Korean models worth even the lower price?

You mean the Korean made Excel model, right? I know they were sold for much less than Japanese made when they were new, but I've never seen one, new or used in Japanese market, so I don't know about anything else. The two were totally unrelated though, both the manufacture and the distributor.

IIRC, Vestax (The distributor of Terada made D models) was sued by American D'angelico (?), which was selling those Korean made and they lost (I could be wrong) and later went out of business. There was the licence issue. Vestax bought it from the person who owned it at the time, etc. I don't remember it anymore.
I haven't read but there is a book written buy the former owner of Vestax, Hidesato Shiino. He is also the founder of ESP and before that worked with Fujigen (Greco), Yamaha, etc.

Anyway, if it's a good bargain and you like it there's no reason not to buy it.

[GeoX]

Thank you very much for all the details.

Maybe someone who owns one could share his opinion on whether this is really a bargain for the price I mentioned in my first email or not.

Anyone?

[takauya]

Oh btw, the easiest way to tell if it's a Korean made D'angelico or a TeraDangelico from a pic is looking at the tailpiece. The former has a simpler design (Excel?) and the latter has a complex design (New Yorker?).

[rolijen]

Just to clarify, if I remeber correctly, the Premier series is made in Indonesia and sells for about half the price of the Korean-made D’Angelicos.

[snoskier63]

Buying a specific guitar because of its potential resale value never made sense to me, unless you know it’s not the right guitar for you from the start. While we all want to make money if we ever sell, the point to me has always been to get the absolute best guitar for my hands and to my ears for the money I can afford to spend. As a result, I have a few Guild archtops. I realize that their resale value may no be as good as some other brands, but I don’t intend to ever sell since they are the perfect guitars for me. Ironically, these are the only guitars I have ever bought new. In getting to this point I only bought used, because resale was rarely less than what I paid, and was frequently a little higher. If you aren’t yet clear on your preferences buy used and treat it as rentals that cost little to nothing in the end.

Regarding the OP, I wouldn’t worry so much about a specific brand or manufacturer. I would get out and play as many guitars as you can within your price range, then get what you like best. Guitar tone and feel are all very subjective, so what one person thinks is good, another may think is junk. There are far too many good options these days to get caught up in a name. Play what you love, and love what you play!

[GeoX]

Buying a specific guitar because of its potential resale value never made sense to me, unless you know it’s not the right guitar for you from the start. While we all want to make money if we ever sell, the point to me has always been to get the absolute best guitar for my hands and to my ears for the money I can afford to spend. As a result, I have a few Guild archtops. I realize that their resale value may no be as good as some other brands, but I don’t intend to ever sell since they are the perfect guitars for me. Ironically, these are the only guitars I have ever bought new. In getting to this point I only bought used, because resale was rarely less than what I paid, and was frequently a little higher. If you aren’t yet clear on your preferences buy used and treat it as rentals that cost little to nothing in the end.

Regarding the OP, I wouldn’t worry so much about a specific brand or manufacturer. I would get out and play as many guitars as you can within your price range, then get what you like best. Guitar tone and feel are all very subjective, so what one person thinks is good, another may think is junk. There are far too many good options these days to get caught up in a name. Play what you love, and love what you play!

I totally agree with your approach. The problem is that this guitar is for sale online in a different country and unfortunately it is not available where I live. That is why I am asking for any opinions on the specific model's quality (at least). Nothing to do with resale and money value.

[2bornot2bop]

The quality is very good. Read all the reviews. It’s $400. Not a lot available for $400

[Cunamara]

Orville Gibson, Leo Fender, etc., built up their guitar businesses into corporate factories obviously intended to outlive them. John D'Angelico and Jimmy D'Aquisto did not- they were small boutique makers with 1:1 relationships with their customers. Turning them into brand names traded like this, without their consent or clear intent (so far as I know, anyway), seems problematic to me. Even D'Aquisto's brief partnerships with Hagstrom and Fender produced guitars with those names on the headstock (the Fender guitars having a "designed by D'Aquisto" mention). I don't know who got or gets any money in the D'Angelico family, John had no children but his brother did so maybe them. Jimmy D'Aquisto had kids and if they're getting any money for those instruments from Aria then that's at least one good outcome.

So I'll admit these bother me but I've kind of got a stick you-know-were about it. I have played several of the older Vestax "D'Angelicos" and, setting the name aside, they were well made guitars that sounded good and played well. I'd have been interested with a different name. The Aria D'Aquistos at least get the look very right, I've never played one though, but the look has tempted me I will admit. Some of them sound very well as Rob demonstrates. Jimmy's later guitars were to me the pinnacle of archtop elegance. I'd have to sell my house and live in my car to afford a real one, assuming I could get enough for the house that is.

[Cunamara]

Maybe someone who owns one could share his opinion on whether this is really a bargain for the price I mentioned in my first email or not.

LOL, apparently your question is being overlooked as we ride our hobbyhorses. I would say that at €400 it's a good deal- that must be close to wholesale if the list price is €700. But if you can, play the guitar first and see what you think.

[Arnesto]

I’ll preface this by saying I got pushback on another site for the diatribe I wrote in respect to the “ new “ D’Angelico models. I’m sixty one years old, been playing for sixty years . ( Not that that means anything ,as we all know ) I’m from Rochester ,the jazz Capital no one is aware of. Think the Pithod Club,and some of the Eastman School musicians .
I digress. When I started playing, all the players I knew were much older than me, I was possibly fifteen and they in their fifties. They mentored me,they also all refused to give me lessons. The reason being I was so passionate about the craft of playing well. They would say just come and watch while we teach others that don’t have your enthusiasm. They did give me sage advice however. You have a fourth finger,use it ! “ Your not Django “
the two that really took me under their wings played early D’Angelico New Yorkers and Excels and all owned Gibson L5s as well. These were all fifties models , the real deal.
Ill get to the point,honest. So I was rather reared on them, although I never owned a DAgelico, but did own an L5 .
Recently ( the past few years ) I started seeing ads for DAngelico Guitars . I couldn’t believe it. Thought someone in New York had possibly kept the good faith and handed down this generation of craftsmanship. The first picture I saw was a New Yorker. From the photos it looked spot on. I had no idea of the price, but saw rock musicians endorsing them, it made no sense . ( I think there are some phenomenal players in the pop field, but they were not the ones endorsing these Guitars . So I got curious and see they are selling these at the Guitar Center , it was becoming more of a disconnect by the minute. A New Yorker for $1200. ? I knew the game was up, where in Asia were these being made . I went to the G.C. and they had a bunch of different models. I played four of them , this was in the past year. I’ve never played a piece of junk like those before. The finish must have been a 1/4 inch thick. The action and intonation were both terrible . Then I saw the “ Holy Grail “ a GRATEFUL DEAD model. I didn’t walk out ,I ran. This is insulting on every level. We have become a country where everything from making music,and making Guitars is all about profit and nothing more . Who the hell sold out the name without having oversight as to the quality of the Guitars . I’m a big fan of the E series Japanese Stratocasters . The 82-84 Fugi Jen are as good as anything ever made in the USA . Change the pups and caps and you’ve got a maple neck 57 Strat, of P bass.
The Guitars I played at GC were NOT made in Japan, rather Korea .
So today I saw a D’Aquiato New Yorker on Craigslist . $2200. It too looks like the original. I’m going to look at it tomorrow. I know automatically if it’s not Japanese I’m not interested . The seller claims he doesn’t know where it’s made, that’s not a good sign. The question is this. It appears many of you are familiar with these Guitars . What is your honest take on them ? I see the tops are pressed and not carved , that’s a rather big deal when you’re talking $2200. I also understand, as none are made by hand, like the Originals ,that you may have a lot of discrepancies between say three of the same models. If by chance it is made in Japan, and the craftsmanship ,playability,intonation and sound are great, how far down can I go to beat him up on the price : ) ? Are the D’Aquistos in a different league than the new DeAngelicos ? I’m sure they farm out the product to different distributors, is there one maker that is hands above the rest in Japan ? Fugi Gen was the way to go with Fender , I have no idea if they are still producing Guitars en masse .
Any thoughts would be appreciated. I apologize for leading you through my entire life’s backstory before I got to the one paragraph question. One must rememeber , you’re possibly all much younger than me, you’re in the know , I’m an old outlier .
Thank You
all the best
jake

Hi Jake all d’aquistos are made in terada, japan by Arai go for ir

[rolijen]

The Terada-built D'Aquisto New Yorkers are very special. I bought one back in 2004 and kept it until last year. It was one of my favorites. Craftsmanship was fantastic. Sides and back are laminates, but very high quality AAA maple. Neck is beautiful flamed maple. The top is solid, formed spruce. Not as lively and resonant as a solid-wood, carved archtop but, for +/- $2K it's wonderful. Watch some of forum member Rob MacKillop's videos of him playing his Terada-built New Yorker. It's magical. For reference, I paid $2,200 brand new for mine and it came with one of the nicest cases ever. Note: There was no label inside mine at all. Just a serial number stamped into the ebony fingerboard near the pickup (maybe between the 20th and 21st fret?)

I have loved Jimmy D's take on the New Yorker ever since I saw one for the first time back in the 70s. This version of his design is a fine tribute to him and delivers value for the price. But, I don't pretend it's equivalent to one of his masterpieces.

Here's my listing where I sold mine for $1,999 last year D'Aquisto New Yorker 2003 Antique Natural | Reverb. There is a little history of the Terada-built D'Aquistos in the listing description. Just putting a little info out there.

Roli