versatile guitar for jazz-fusion

[Boston Joe]

I was so I made my own hardtail Strat. Keep wondering if I will ever own a guitar with a vibrato.

So, I never use a whammy bar, but I got a strat with a whammy bar bridge because I think the springs inside add to the sound. I blocked the bridge with a piece of wood wrapped in duct tape.

[jads57]

There are so many great choices in every price range these days! First thing to think of Gibson or Fender Camp?

Gibson :24&3/4" scale, glued in neck, Humbuckers!
Fender: 25& 1/2" scale length, bolt on neck, Single Coils usually.

There are may variations w/ in this framework as well!

[guitarbard]

The French maker Vigier makes guitars with no radius necks. Flat right across. Shawn Lane used one. A bit pricey, though.

[Almeisan]

If I look at everything out there, I think a Carvin (I see they are Kiesel now) semi-hollow would be the first guitar to try. But of course they only ship from their US factory to the customer and they are a bit pricey.
An Eastman T184 may actually be something I can try out, then order a natural finish one.

Only the Shawn Lane Vigier has a flat fretboard I think. And I hear of many people that that guitar how Shawn Lane wanted it, and I am no Shawn Lane.

I already had it in my head I like flat fretboards and now that I discovered that my current guitar already has an extremely flat fretboard, I for sure think I won't like having one that's rounder.

I guess I'll send around a few emails this week and see if I can try out some guitars that appeal to me, and some others they suggest to me. Then see where that leads.

[Average Joe]

In your situation I'd go for either a HSS or HSH strat or a 335 style. For the influences the OP mentions I'd take the strat of those two. A strat can get a perfectly applicable jazz sound. You may not get to sound like Wes but you can sound good. And a humbucker equipped strat is perfect for the fusion sounds

There are several Tele suggestions above. I love the sound of mine for jazz but if you want to go for Holdsworth level distortion the single coil buzz may be a problem

[Almeisan]

Yeah, my influences, I didn't mention them as they may not matter that much. But they are Shawn Lane, Allan Holdsworth and Al Di Meola as the top 3.

Maybe ill end up playing in a cover band (like Shawn Lane did for years). No idea. I just know I want to do something with the skill I build up practicing scales over and over and be a real musician now and become more rounded, playing with others.

[guitarbard]

Not to turn this into a 'player's' thread, but watch Guthrie Govan, too, and watch what he uses. Is heretofore a Stratocaster style, either a Suhr, or more lately a Charvel, I think I remember. Correct me here if I'm wrong.

[christianm77]

Not to turn this into a 'player's' thread, but watch Guthrie Govan, too, and watch what he uses. Is heretofore a stratocaster style, either a Suhr, or more lately a Charvel, I think I remember. Correct me here if I'm wrong.

Suhr guitars are badass.

I think we are straying from the topic a little. There are plenty of guitars that are great for fusion, but the OP specifically wanted a box that would do both fusion and jazz. Guthrie for me doesn't count as a jazz player.

There is an interesting side issue about what is a jazz sound. For me Mike Stern is an absolute jazz players (albeit with some rock flourishes :-)) but doesn't use a conventional jazz tone at all. But a lot of his language is stone functional harmony bebop I honestly think if he played a big fat jazz box with no effects, everyone would think he was a great straight-ahead guy.

Also people listen with their eyes - guys on gigs can be pretty conservative. When I pull my Tele out I get some funny looks, until they hear me get a jazz tone out of it, and then they relax. A 335 or similar has more of a 'jazz' look to it.

One important governing factor is right hand technique and setup. There are no set answers here, but a super light shred right hand isn't great for getting a big warm jazz tone. Putting thick flat wound strings on the instrument would favor jazz over rock/fusion and putting slinky roundwounds on will make it harder to get a fat traditional jazz sound, so there is a strong element of compromise - always.

I'm not a shredder so I'm happy with .11's and heavier on my tele for my fusiony moments, but if you are harboring ambitions to be the next Holdsworth, that'll probably not work.

FWIW I think a 335 or Tele style guitar with that type of scale length is a very versatile test bed for trying out different setups, and you may well find your preferences evolve as you are out gigging. But I think the desire to get one good guitar is a good one, as you can get a more professional instrument with a good pickup...

[christianm77]

Yeah, my inlfuences, I didn't mention them as they may not matter that much. But they are Shawn Lane, Allan Holdsworth and Al di Meola as the top 3.

Maybe ill end up playing in a cover band (like Shawn Lane did for years). No idea. I just know I want to do something with the skill I build up practicing scales over and over and be a real musician now and become more rounded, playing with others.

Sorry I only read this later, but my points kind of stand.

TBH, I think any guitar will be fine (possibly not the Dimebag model, as noted ;-)) I think get something reasonably versatile, and see how you go. I played a Les Paul for a lot of my early years getting it together and it was fine. I didn't want to commit to getting a jazz box with big fat strings, but over time I got more drawn towards that kind of thing.

I think most reasonably shaped solid body guitars with passive pickups ought to do you. I mean, here I am playing a Dano haha (I think there's some footage of Jeff Matz doing the same on the standards thread)

The important thing is to have an instrument you feel comfortable with and go and play it as much as possible. There are loads of jazz guitarists out there playing carved archtops, laminate archtops, semi acoustics, nylon strings acoustics, solid bodies, even the very occasional Vigier believe it or not. I don't think it matters.

[guitarbard]

That new Epiphone 339 sized Casino looks like a sweetie. Price is good, too.

PS I've caught Govan, in the odd moment, throw down some nice bop licks, but, to be sure, and I agree, he's not primarily a jazzer, tho I'm sure if he wanted to.

[jzucker]

I currently have a carvin holdsworth which is great for legato/holdsworth stuff but the guitar itself doesn't have a huge amount of character. Like most carvins, it's got a very neutral tone without much personality. So if you're doing bluesy fusion ala robben ford, it just doesn't cut it. I'm probably going to sell it when I find something else but I'd like to get something ala Suhr Modern with 2 pickups. Just wondering what else is out there.

Not interested in carvin/kiesel, or standard strats, teles, etc.

Ideally, the guitar will be less than 7lbs, 2 or 3 pickups, 12" radius or flatter and 24 frets but I'd take 22 also.

Thoughts?

And on a Related question, is a suhr modern, anderson or tyler really worth the same dough as a '60s barney kessel?

[David B]

Hi Jack,
Two options from the big brands immediately came to mind:
2016 Fender Elite Stratocaster - 9.5"-14" graduated fretboard, 22 frets, graduated neck carve, the latest Fender noiseless single coils, locking tuners.

2016 Gibson Les Paul Standard - Graduated radius fretboard, asymmetric neck carve, weight relieved, coil taps, phase switch and "blower" switch. The "High Performance" version of the Standard adds a fancier top, a slightly wider neck, different neck heel cutaway and titanium nut and bridge saddles and has the option of the robotic tuner system.

A third option:
John Page (Fender Custom Shop founder) now has his own production instrument line, built in Japan. Nice-looking and specced takes on the classic 'F' designs. The S-type model comes in SSS and HH versions. Price is around the $1500 dollar mark. John Page Classic ? John Page Classic

[jzucker]

the body on those weight relived les pauls are 5.5lbs by themselves. Guessing it's 8.xlbs with the neck and electronics

[MaxTwang]

Suhr Moderns are great and the Pro series will save you quite a bit, you just don't get the options of a custom guitar (they come as they come).

The M7 and M8 have a standard non-locking tremolo. The M7 and M8 are basswood with maple top which might be a bit neutral for you, the Modern Satin is mahogany (and less $$$). If you are looking for alder then you have to go Custom but the alders are reasonably priced.

Yes, Suhrs are worth the $$$ at the $2k - $2.6k price point of the satin, Pro or alder custom. They are light, resonant and play like a dream.

[John A.]

I currently have a carvin holdsworth which is great for legato/holdsworth stuff but the guitar itself doesn't have a huge amount of character. Like most carvins, it's got a very neutral tone without much personality. So if you're doing bluesy fusion ala robben ford, it just doesn't cut it. I'm probably going to sell it when I find something else but I'd like to get something ala Suhr Modern with 2 pickups. Just wondering what else is out there.

Not interested in carvin/kiesel, or standard strats, teles, etc.

Ideally, the guitar will be less than 7lbs, 2 or 3 pickups, 12" radius or flatter and 24 frets but I'd take 22 also.

Thoughts?

And on a Related question, is a suhr modern, anderson or tyler really worth the same dough as a '60s barney kessel?

Ever check out Steve Marchione?

Electric Archives | Marchione Guitars | Handmade in Texas

He was the luthier behind Pensa-Suhr before he went out on his own. His stuff is great.

John

[Bosko]

For the price of a new Suhr Modern Pro, you could consider a custom guitar built by K-Line or similar, and end up with the exact specs you want.

[MaxTwang]

Your tone reference is Robben Ford who has a pretty mid-heavy, honky vintage vibe.

Not sure any modern shredder is going to go there as they tend to be flatter and more neutral. If a more contemporary tone like Tom Quayle or Gutherie Govan fits the bill then the Suhr moderns will get you there.

There's a really nice Suhr Antique T with roasted neck in the For Sale section.

[kris]

Attachment 30451
this guitar is quite nice!

[Bosko]

FYI

K-Line did an S style guitar for me, compound radius, contoured heel, Lollar mini hums with a single coil in the middle, 5 way switch wired for master volume, tone, and blender for both minis in all positions, and my choice of finish, and neck specs etc.

Custom is probably not a good choice if you like to turn over guitars.

[icr]

I actually collect that style of guitar and have quite a few different types. Sonically, I think one of the best guitars in that style is the RG550 the old ones can be very lively with a lot of different sounds from the pickup combinations; a real Super Strat. I have a few of them for that style playing. In fact I have quite a few others that I have compared side by side:

Ibanez RG550 late

Ibanez RG550 early

Gibson MIII

Ibanez SF470TR

Ibanez RG470

Ibanez s540
Ibanez s540 (audio only)
PRS Custom 24

Jackson Soloist

[MaxTwang]

That Suhr looks like the same specs as the Guthrie Govan model

[vinlander]

Am I the only one who thinks an SG can be a great fusion guitar ?

Close to a Les Paul without the damn weight

[mr quick]

Ony of my good friends has a Tyler Studio Elite, as does my father. Both are extremely happy with theirs and naturally I've played both. What can I say? Definitely some of the best Strats I've ever played, but it's still just a strat to me!

[RyanM]

Check out this demo for jazz tones of a Modern:

[krusty]

For fusion and/or shred, you probably couldn't get a better playing guitar than a Parker Fly. Love mine.