Perfect Jazz guitar?

[Kasperovich]

Originally Posted by nic

Duojet is a remarkably under-appreciated guitar. Do you use it for jazz?

I have and it does an adequate job. The hollowbodies do reign supreme though. In a pinch it works fine. I use it for almost everything really. Very versatile and sounds marvelous. The bigsby gets used often, so even though the Sheraton is my most veratile axe, I usually grab the Duojet. By the way the Sheraton Elitist is better than any 335 style guitar I have had or played. The Tal is surprisingly versatile as well. The Phoenix is a one trick pony - but oh, what a pony. It will "do Jazz" but would not be my first choice and actually, I would you the Duojet before the Phoenix. It may be just these two particular ones, but the Duojet is "creamier" than the Phoenix. Go figure. Both have TV Jones...

[benzblues]

I have Yamaha AE1200(Gibson L-5 copy)
I think it's perfect for me.
listen..
YouTube - All the thing you are - Duo jazz
YouTube - T-bone shuffle

[nic]

I just put some really high end pick ups into an old Strat I had laying around. They are made by Chevalier and are actually pretty hot. However, if I set to the neck pick up with a little volume rolled off the sound is so full and warm it is a great jazz tone.

[jazzbender]

Originally Posted by benzblues

I have Yamaha AE1200(Gibson L-5 copy)
I think it's perfect for me.
listen..

Great tone and fine playing. I've Been thinking about getting a Yamaha. What's your string set?

[benzblues]

My favorite string set D'Addario flatwound string 13-56

[jazzbender]

Originally Posted by benzblues

My favorite string set D'Addario flatwound string 13-56

Excellent choice - wish I could use 13's. All I can handle on my archtop are 11's

[whiskey02]

Originally Posted by derek

SRV played .13s on all his strats, though rounds not flats. The rule is pretty much, if you go up or down more than one size in strings, you will need to reset intonation and maybe nut slot adjustment.

If moving only 1 gauge, if anything is needed, usually just a tweak of the truss rod.

He also, don't forget, tuned down a whole step to make those bends with .13's.

[benzblues]

When I used flatwound string I don't want to bends.
But when I play blues I will play my stratocaster with 11's

YouTube - BenzBlues - Hoochie Coochie Man
YouTube - Stormy Monday - KOH TAO Festival 2010

[Bluesguy]

Originally Posted by joseph vocht

...have narrowed my choices down to 2 guitars for jazz I consider to be exceptional...one is the Godin Kingston with one P90 ...

I googled this and can't find any mention of the Kingston, other than Godin being located in Kingston. Is there another model name? I love p90s.

[TommyD]

I'm not going to read four pages (correction! 12 pages!) of posts to find out if this has already been suggested, but a guitar I'm beginning to love the sound of is the George Benson Ibanez. and I love its smallish size. It seems to garner enthusiastic reviews every time. I understand it's been on the market for 30 years. Hope they don't discontinue it until I get my hands on one! Wish it were cheaper.

tommy/

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

I googled this and can't find any mention of the Kingston, other than Godin being located in Kingston. Is there another model name? I love p90s.

Kingpin

they do a non-cut single pickup model, and a 2 pickup cutaway model called the CW II.

Pretty good bang for the buck, (particularly the 1 pup model--wish they'd do a 1 pickup cutaway) if you like an ES-125 vibe.

[benzblues]

Yamaha AE1200(Gibson L-5 copy) with D'Addario flatwound string 13-56
YouTube - west coast blues - benzblues

[kamlapati]

Oh my, I love these unanswerable questions!

Perfect jazz guitar? Come on guys, there's no such thing.

Perfect jazz guitar for me? For what I'm doing now? That's easy, it's a full-on acoustic L-5. Please, not to be confused with a L-5CES or a Wes Montgomery model, they're great, but they're not me.

I need the long scale, the acoustic response and volume, the balance.. oh my, the joy.

[barrymclark]

Originally Posted by kamlapati

Oh my, I love these unanswerable questions!

Perfect jazz guitar? Come on guys, there's no such thing.

Perfect jazz guitar for me? For what I'm doing now? That's easy, it's a full-on acoustic L-5. Please, not to be confused with a L-5CES or a Wes Montgomery model, they're great, but they're not me.

I need the long scale, the acoustic response and volume, the balance.. oh my, the joy.

I agree with this. What makes the guitar perfect is so very, very personal regardless of musical style.

For me, for jazz, it is my Heritage H575. Very much like the ES175 but with a solid carved top instead of the laminate and has a carved bridge instread of a TOM bridge.

I have said on other forums that you can play jazz on any guitar, but not all of them will give jazz back what makes that last part is very personal. I really dig that old 40's sound so... the solid bodies like an LP or a Tele just won't do if for me regardless of how good other guitarists make them sound. It is like trying to talk with someone else's voice.

[ejwhite09]

Originally Posted by california

I was in a local Guitar Center store looking at a Les Paul. When the salesman asked what I'd be playing with it, I said jazz and some blues. the salesman then asked, "who plays jazz on a Les Paul." I replied, "Well, Les Paul for one."

This sums up Guitar Center better than anyway I've heard it.

[Reg]

I tend to agree with using a jazz box for jazz... depending on what you call jazz. Many guitar players can cover a little jazz, like Les Paul, but I would not call them jazz players. There's more than just hearing jazz harmony, rhythm and melodic aspects, although it's pretty easy to hear whether one is a jazz or other style of player. But what I'm referencing is the physical response from playing a jazz box. Learning to play on one helps develop the jazz sound... Best Reg

[ejwhite09]

Originally Posted by Reg

I tend to agree with using a jazz box for jazz... depending on what you call jazz. Many guitar players can cover a little jazz, like Les Paul, but I would not call them jazz players. There's more than just hearing jazz harmony, rhythm and melodic aspects, although it's pretty easy to hear whether one is a jazz or other style of player. But what I'm referencing is the physical response from playing a jazz box. Learning to play on one helps develop the jazz sound... Best Reg

Eh, I don't know if its really that necessary. I have a jazz box and a les paul, overtime I've come to perfer the les paul, it is a jazz guitar, but you gotta back the amp volume off ten...it CAN be hard to get a fuller sound on the higher strings though. So without some amp fiddling the les paul will seem a lot more fiddle like and tingy. I have noticed that jazz requires an immensely lighter touch and perhaps a jazz box, will make this more obvious, as if you play with a heavy touch you will sound like crap quickly.

[paynow]

Originally Posted by ejwhite09

This sums up Guitar Center better than anyway I've heard it.

How about Sam Ash? I went in there to get a copy of the Wes Montgomery Folio by Steve Kahn in the early 1980s and the clerk at the counter took one look at the book at said "Who is this fuck-in' guy?"

HE MEANT WES!

[ejwhite09]

Originally Posted by paynow

How about Sam Ash? I went in there to get a copy of the Wes Montgomery Folio by Steve Kahn in the early 1980s and the clerk at the counter took one look at the book at said "Who is this fuck-in' guy?"

HE MEANT WES!

In my town the Sam Ash and Guitar Center are Literally next door to each other. I used to go to GC and Sam Ash a lot until I found out its basically wal mart run by the managers band and his friends bands. Who probably think Four on Six is a porno. I only go there to get shit in bulk like cables, or a guitar that I want and they'll have in store so I can talk them down a couple hundred for handling it with their hair gel stained hands and middle school studded belts for three months.

[paynow]

Originally Posted by ejwhite09

In my town the Sam Ash and Guitar Center are Literally next door to each other. I used to go to GC and Sam Ash a lot until I found out its basically wal mart run by the managers band and his friends bands. Who probably think Four on Six is a porno. I only go there to get shit in bulk like cables, or a guitar that I want and they'll have in store so I can talk them down a couple hundred for handling it with their hair gel stained hands and middle school studded belts for three months.

LOL! So true! And even for that I've stopped going in there; I use an independently owned music store in my area or if they don't have what I need, Musician's Friend.

[Hoopskidoodle]

I buy almost everything online, but when I did frequent brick and mortar stores, I greatly preferred Guitar Center to all of the independently owned stores in my area. The staff at the Guitar Centers around here is friendly and knowledgeable, the prices were reasonable (but universally more expensive than what can be found online) You can also play any guitar in the store to your heart content, unmolested. That is the opposite of what I've found at every independent guitar store I've been to. The owners are, quite often, surly A-Holes. That alone would disincline me to buy so much as a bag of picks or ever return. But, the prices are also generally outrageous and there are signs everywhere admonishing customers not to touch the guitars. Personally, I won't put up with that sort of thing, especially from someone hoping to sell me something.

[telemust]

i played gibson, ibanez, godin and heritage archtops...heritage sweet 16 was the best to me (floating humbucker)...now i play telecaster and very happy...strange but true...very nice jazz sound i get with super champ xd.....generally people search a mellow tone for jazz and this adventure might end with a muddy tone...i use tele bridge pick up with low tone its incredible...anyway personal preference...but i'd like to try a benedetto!

[hot ford coupe]

Originally Posted by Hoopskidoodle

I buy almost everything online, but when I did frequent brick and mortar stores, I greatly preferred Guitar Center to all of the independently owned stores in my area. The staff at the Guitar Centers around here is friendly and knowledgeable, the prices were reasonable (but universally more expensive than what can be found online) You can also play any guitar in the store to your heart content, unmolested. That is the opposite of what I've found at every independent guitar store I've been to. The owners are, quite often, surly A-Holes. That alone would disincline me to buy so much as a bag of picks or ever return. But, the prices are also generally outrageous and there are signs everywhere admonishing customers not to touch the guitars. Personally, I won't put up with that sort of thing, especially from someone hoping to sell me something.

I of course am not saying you're wrong in any way or am trying to change your opinion. I'm just adding some anecdotal info.

I have to sort of defend some of those stores that say "don't touch the guitars" or keep the best ones waaaaaaaaaaaay up on the hangers where no one can get at them. In my experience, I've gotten to know a number of owners/managers/salespersons that can defend that kind of behavior. (This doesn't include those owners etc. that are true A holes) They're not really worried about someone like yourself who's a truly prospective buyer and I'm sure they'll let you play whatever you want. I've heard all kinds of horror stories and have seen some music store horrors myself about who tries to play some of the guitars. These monkeys can be pretty rough on some of those instruments knocking them into other guitars, amps and what have you. I've actually seen a customer drop a solid body Steinberger axe onto a Martin acoustic bass I was in the middle of paying for at the time. Good bye sale. A lot of the time, it's a couple of highschool students or maybe a few dudes a bit older who are never going to buy anything but just want to show the salesfolks they have some real "rock stars" in the store. They come in one time too many, turn the sound up to 10 on both the amp and the guitar, turn the distortion on full boil and procede to strangle the guitar and bust all of the ear drums they can within reach. Many times they chase prospective buyers out and a good sales staff know this. Why do they chase other people out?

First, these guys don't stop for God knows how long making it difficult for anyone else to try out a guitar or an amp. You can never hear what you're trying to listen for and if the staff members do nothing about it, it seems they don't really care about their more knowledgeable players.

Second, when you hear most of that crap coming out of the store, it sometimes makes the staff look less knowledgeable about their inventory and different types of music even though it isn't true. (People can be a bit judgemental at times). You can't imaging that they know about the little nuances of a particular string type or pickup type or which amp will give yoou a warmer tone.

Third, and this can also spark the judgemental nature of a lot of people, you see a heavily tattooed staff with black nail polish, some sporting mohawks or whatever. This gives a perspective buyer the opinion that these guys can't know anything about playing jazz, classical etc. even if they really do know their stuff. They look like wailers themselves and you tend to feel like a nerd in the cool store. That's not always true either.

Put this all together and it really can be a pain in the neck for some dealers. My experience has been that once I show a dealer some care (I always remove my belt and buckle before I try a guitar, handle the instruments with great care and control my volume) and skill, I can go into the store again and try anything I want, even the high hanger stuff for as long as I want even if they know I'm not buying on that occasion.

[Arpeggiator]

I was in Dublin, just off Grafton Street.
I tried a really nice Ibanez. The clerk
'locked' me in a room to practice on it!
They don't trust too many over there...
Suffice to say the surprise at the lock-in
took the edge off the buying experience,
and no, I did not buy it!

The best jazz guitar? I was recently at a
Mike Stern gig - great sound from his Tele
(major chorus & flange?) Also a Metheny
gig - again whatever f-hole he was playing
was pure magic.

I have a Korg AX3000G unit - modelling
guitar-effects - and can change the tone of
my inexpensive electric to "almost Stern" and
"near Metheny". Electronics makes the need
for a pure-sounding jazz-guitar less essential,
but I do want to play as Benson or Metheny,
Mitch Watkins, Frisell, Schofield or Stern, Greg
Howe, or even di Meola. Many sounds I can
replicate via the AX3000G, but if it was just
me my amp and a guitar, it'd have to be a Tele
and/or a good archtop - (prolly a 137). I must
try and borrow one, and see just what putting
it thru the AX3000G can do for it... am I alone
in believing that technology can make just the
one guitar more adaptable, to sound like almost
any other guitar?

[Bluesguy]

I agree that electronics eliminate many of the differences in sound quality. But playability has always been the issue for me. Some guitars seem to lend themselves to fingerstyle jazz better than others...some feel better for lead playing. But that is a very personal decision.

Did you ever think that the lock in was so he didn't have to hear a bunch of begginers playing?

[mikeOnTime]

Originally Posted by ejwhite09

...Who probably think Four on Six is a porno...

Very funny (especially in Summertime). It reminds me of that standard, The Shephard's Lament (a.k.a., There Will Never Be Another You).

Regarding stores and teens with hair etc., I think there's lot of room for diversity. I think you can't judge a player by his/her looks. Same theme for the stores. It's about respect for music and art and each other. As for the shredder with 10 settings, lock him up for sure.

Regarding axes, I love the scale and feel of my Ibanez PM20 (with frets plek'd and with SD jazz pickup at the neck).

251,
mike

[shartom]

I've been using an Epiphone Joe Pass for about three years. It gets played a lot and as a result it has really mellowed out. A friend of mine plays a Gibson L5 and I find it sounds really thin. He loves the sound of my Joe Pass.
You can spend your whole life searching for the perfect jazz guitar.
I have four Gibson Les Pauls sitting beside me. I've also used all of them on jazz gigs and they also sound great.
Keep your pick on the ice.

[gcb]

I play on two Gibson L5 Studio and have become so accustomed to them that as long as they stay with me I don't see me playing other guitar. Also play a Martin Concept II gold. This being said, some years ago I had a natural Les Paul Custom with 013 Thomastik strings which sounded great and was the one I normally used to take out. If we remember Joe Pass playing on a Fender Jazzmaster, or Ed Bickert on teles etc. it is an accepted truth that mostly any decent guitar can do a jazz job in good hands, not to forget a classical one, now that some nylon string archtops are being produced. I remember in year 2000 when the great Oscar Peterson visited Buenos Aires (that was a comeback after a health problem had affected his left hand playing), he gave a concert before a multitude at a crowded theather. His guitarist for the venue was Ulf Wakenius, who played a black Les Paul Studio through a Fender Twin amp and produced a very convincing jazz tone.

[lpdeluxe]

I've been attending the "Friday Jazz on the Patio" concerts at a local hotel. Usually the group is a sax or trombone player, a great drummer, and a standup/bass guitar player (his electric is a Victor Bailey fretless, by the way). Four weeks ago a local oncologist sat in with them on an Ibanez GB10 and an Egnator amp that I couldn't see the model number on. He had a convincing jazz guitar tone. He was also playing cold from charts, on some challenging material, from Girl From Ipanema to So What with lots of other material in between. He didn't take a lot of solos, understandably, but his tone was to die for.

[Peterplaysmusic]

Hi Arpeggiator,

I think you are right, that technology advances in guitar and amp simulation essentially can satisfy your desire to play jazz or various subsets ( bebop, fusion, Stern Vs, Pass. ) on a single non-traditional jazz box. Both tradition, playability, and sound are considerations .... for example, most players would not choose a Strat or Les Paul to play classical or Gypsy Jazz. Me, I have a Gibby CS-356 carved top which is sweet for jazz but my favorite guitar I use for many genres is a Strat ...my 1991 Ultra sounds pretty authentic on that Lace Sensor Neck PUP ...just bought a Fender Amer Dlx Ash strat and there is a great jazz tone with with new S-1 switching system ( button down and 5-way throw switch in middle position .... so I think the answer to your question is yes ..for me I think a lot of the sound comes from the fingers, touch, and chord voicings but I would always opt for the guitar ( Strat) that is most comfortable and playable to me :-) ... for many players who lean toward tradition and convention I suppose a potent case can be argued for a big box arched top F hole guitar .... lots of great instruments availble at very affordable price points... Good luck, Peter