Getting "the Jazz Tone"

[Armon]

During my practice sessions, I have not been able get a jazz tone that sounds similar to the tones of the jazz guitarist in their recording. While I know each guitarist have their own unique tone, I was hoping some of you might have some tips on how to get close to their sounds, so I can then try to find a good personal tone without having to worry too much about not sounding "jazzy" enough.

For most of my playing I use my Epiphone Les Paul through my Marshall MG 15 watt solid state amp. I'm currently using the neck pickup with the tone totally rolled off on my Les Paul. And, on my Amp, I currently have the mids maxed and the bass and treble set to the minimum. Setting the bass and treble to the minimum does not remove all of the bass and treble, so I still have some bass and some treble that makes it though the rolled off tone knob on my Les Paul.

So far, these setting have gotten me closest to the jazz sound I'm looking for, but there still feels like something is missing from my set-up. Does anybody have any tips on how to adjust my set-up to get closer to the jazz sound?

Also, I have an Ibanez RG7321, a 7-string solid-body, that has 24-frets, so the neck pickup has been moved closer to the bridge. Does anybody if that will make getting a jazz tone out this guitar harder?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

[mr. beaumont]

i think your settings are just too extreme. start with the EQ flat, roll off a little tone on that neck pickup. boost the mids on the amp a little, and cut a little bit of the highs.

see what happens.

[bkdavidson]

I agree with Mr. Beaumont. Aside from starting with the EQ flat and rolling the tone on the gtr. back a little, try backing off the volume on the gtr. This gives a bit "woodier" tone. Another thing to try is lowering the neck pickup. From the gear you've listed it seems you do a lot of rock playing, and lowering the pickups does decrease output (bad for rock) but this will definitely give you a woodier, jazzier sound. As far as the 7-string, I don't think the pickup being closer will make much difference. You might have some luck since that probably has a thinner tone than a Les Paul and won't push the amp as hard.

Good luck

[FWBO]

good advice from Mr Beaumont and bkdavidson.

I started with a Marshall MG15 DFX with an archtop.

The most important thing I have learned is tone controls at 12'oclock on most amps is a very good place to start.

If you are happy with a screwdriver then try taking the rear panel off the amp - it gives a looser more airy sound that I personally preferred for jazz.

Put the back back on if you are going to play loud or play rock or you may blow the speaker.

[NSJ]

One thing I've learned is that the differential types of loudness of the individual strings the balance required to reach an appropriate sound. This usually means tweaking the individual screws of the pickup, possibly raising the 1st and 2nd strings to make them a bit louder, and lowering the 5th and 6th strings to make it a little less bassier. You don't want a situation where you have to strike some strings harder than other to achieve a balanced sound. This should be worked out beforehand.

Of course, this also means that you must have a pickup that can be manipulated individually. Many of them do not allow it.

[rio]

I find that rolling back the tone too far really kills a guitars tone. Try rolling it back just until it takes the edge off and the highs start to get a bit softer.

Next what kind of strings are you using? Heavier flatwound strings tend to have more of a traditional tone but are of course not required, but you don't want to be using a 9 set of boomers or something. I like using a custom 10 gauge set of Newtone Archtop strings on my solid body (which ends up being .10, .13, .17 plain strings from wherever, .26, .36 and .46 from the Archtop set). You could also try the Bebop set of Thomastik. Both of these strings are double wrapped with nickle wire which really takes away the overly bright sound of steel wrapped strings but still gives you some tone to work with (i.e. not as dead as flat wound strings)

Then finally there is the pick - what are you using? This really depends on your touch and technique but if I am using a medium fender pick I will always not have (what I would consider to be) a good jazz sound. Try a thicker pick around 1.5mm or so. Personally I like D'Andrea Pro Plek picks.

A Les Paul definitely has the capability to have a good jazz sound! The amp might be the culprit if you get all of these things worked out and still are not happy with the sound. Polytones are pretty cheap on ebay and would certainly get you going in the right direction tone wise.

[TieDyedDevil]

Originally Posted by NSJ

One thing I've learned is that the differential types of loudness of the individual strings the balance required to reach an appropriate sound. This usually means tweaking the individual screws of the pickup, possibly raising the 1st and 2nd strings to make them a bit louder, and lowering the 5th and 6th strings to make it a little less bassier. You don't want a situation where you have to strike some strings harder than other to achieve a balanced sound. This should be worked out beforehand.

Of course, this also means that you must have a pickup that can be manipulated individually. Many of them do not allow it.

Another way to approach string-to-string balance is to change the size of each string. The mass of the string influences how much output it generates through the pickup.

I find that standard round wound sets have unnecessarily heavy bass strings. I made up a custom-gauge set that's basically a set of 10s on the three treble strings and a set of 9s on the three bass strings. The string-to-string balance is much better that way.

[Armon]

Originally Posted by bkdavidson

I agree with Mr. Beaumont. Aside from starting with the EQ flat and rolling the tone on the gtr. back a little, try backing off the volume on the gtr. This gives a bit "woodier" tone.

I have the volume rolled off a little bit, but I'll try messing with the volume knob a bit more and see if that helps.

Another thing to try is lowering the neck pickup. From the gear you've listed it seems you do a lot of rock playing, and lowering the pickups does decrease output (bad for rock) but this will definitely give you a woodier, jazzier sound.

Would lowering the pickups have a similar effect to rolling off the volume on the guitar?

Yea, I bought most of my gear before I found out that I liked playing jazz, so I did not take into count how they would sound with jazz.

As far as the 7-string, I don't think the pickup being closer will make much difference. You might have some luck since that probably has a thinner tone than a Les Paul and won't push the amp as hard.

Good luck

Cool, I just wanted to check if would have would have a negative effect on my tone since I read on another guitar forum, which is more rock and blues based, that the shift on the neck pickup hurts the clean tone.

Originally Posted by FWBO

If you are happy with a screwdriver then try taking the rear panel off the amp - it gives a looser more airy sound that I personally preferred for jazz.

Put the back back on if you are going to play loud or play rock or you may blow the speaker.

If none of the other methods suggested here works, I might try this, but I'm afraid that I'd forget that I removed the rear panel and try play some highly distorted rock causing me to blow the speaker.

Originally Posted by NSJ

One thing I've learned is that the differential types of loudness of the individual strings the balance required to reach an appropriate sound. This usually means tweaking the individual screws of the pickup, possibly raising the 1st and 2nd strings to make them a bit louder, and lowering the 5th and 6th strings to make it a little less bassier. You don't want a situation where you have to strike some strings harder than other to achieve a balanced sound. This should be worked out beforehand.

Of course, this also means that you must have a pickup that can be manipulated individually. Many of them do not allow it.

I'm not sure if my Les Paul's pickup can be adjusted like that, but if they can be, I will try this too.

Originally Posted by rio

I find that rolling back the tone too far really kills a guitars tone. Try rolling it back just until it takes the edge off and the highs start to get a bit softer.

I thought I might have been rolling it off too much, so I will try to add back in a bit more treble.

Next what kind of strings are you using? Heavier flatwound strings tend to have more of a traditional tone but are of course not required, but you don't want to be using a 9 set of boomers or something. I like using a custom 10 gauge set of Newtone Archtop strings on my solid body (which ends up being .10, .13, .17 plain strings from wherever, .26, .36 and .46 from the Archtop set). You could also try the Bebop set of Thomastik. Both of these strings are double wrapped with nickle wire which really takes away the overly bright sound of steel wrapped strings but still gives you some tone to work with (i.e. not as dead as flat wound strings)

I currently have D'Addario Nickel Round Wound (.10, .13, .17, .26, .36, and .46) for my Les Paul and the same set on my 7-string with an added .59 for the low A string. I just ordered a set of D’Addario Chromes Flat Wound (.10, .14, wound .20, .28, .38, and .48) for my Les Paul to see if that would help me get a jazz tone on my Les Paul.

Then finally there is the pick - what are you using? This really depends on your touch and technique but if I am using a medium fender pick I will always not have (what I would consider to be) a good jazz sound. Try a thicker pick around 1.5mm or so. Personally I like D'Andrea Pro Plek picks.

I'm currently using the Jum Dunlop Nylon Jazz III XL. It does not say how thick it is, but it is thicker than the 1.12mm picks I have and is very stiff. While we are talking about pick, do jazz players still use the really thick pick even when just strumming? I'm just wondering because I think a lot of rock players prefer really thin picks for strumming.

A Les Paul definitely has the capability to have a good jazz sound! The amp might be the culprit if you get all of these things worked out and still are not happy with the sound. Polytones are pretty cheap on ebay and would certainly get you going in the right direction tone wise.

I was hoping a Les Paul could get a jazz sound, so that's why I have been trying use it instead of my 7-string since my 7-string looks like it really more designed for metal than anything else. I might also look into buying a Polytone if I’m still having problems finding a jazz tone even after trying all the advice here.

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil

Another way to approach string-to-string balance is to change the size of each string. The mass of the string influences how much output it generates through the pickup.

I find that standard round wound sets have unnecessarily heavy bass strings. I made up a custom-gauge set that's basically a set of 10s on the three treble strings and a set of 9s on the three bass strings. The string-to-string balance is much better that way.

If I can’t adjust my Les Paul’s pickups individually, I will try this to achieve balance across my strings.

Thanks everybody, including the people I did not quote, for all of the advice. When I have some free time to play guitar again, which probably won’t have for a bit since I just entered finals week at my university, I will try all the tips mentioned here.

[Peter C]

I play jazz-ish stuff on a LP-style guitar.

Try a 11 or 12 gauge set of strings, the Chromes for example. (Mine is strung with 13s).

Lower the pickup height. They're often set up too high (for Rock) = muddy tone.

Turn the amp volume up and guitar volume down.

Start off with all tone controls on 5 / halfway.

Don't automatically think to play Jazz you have to "roll back the treble".

I've read a lot of people saying that the Epiphone LP is a good guitar let down by the standard pickups. Stew-Mac sell an inexpensive replacement humbucker which seems to get good reviews: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electron...e_Pickups.html

Lastly, I don't know your Ibanez 7 string model, but if it's a longer scale (25.5), it may suprise you with the right strings and adjustments.

[Armon]

Originally Posted by Peter C

I play jazz-ish stuff on a LP-style guitar.

Try a 11 or 12 gauge set of strings, the Chromes for example. (Mine is strung with 13s).

If I feel that just getting flat wound strings don't get me there, I'll try of some higher gauges on the flat wound.

Lower the pickup height. They're often set up too high (for Rock) = muddy tone.

Since so many people are suggesting this, I'll try it next time I have my guitar out for more than a few moments.

Turn the amp volume up and guitar volume down.

Start off with all tone controls on 5 / halfway.

I tried messing around with the knobs on my guitar and amp, and, so far, I have been getting some neat sounds. But, I have been playing much jazz at the moment so I'm not sure if it getting me the jazz sound I'm looking for.

Don't automatically think to play Jazz you have to "roll back the treble".

I personally like the sound of the treble rolled back a bit, but I will keep in mind that you don't have to roll it off too much.

I've read a lot of people saying that the Epiphone LP is a good guitar let down by the standard pickups. Stew-Mac sell an inexpensive replacement humbucker which seems to get good reviews: Golden Age Humbuckers at Stewart-MacDonald

Thanks for this link. They look like they might be a good replacement for my Les Paul's current pickups.

Lastly, I don't know your Ibanez 7 string model, but if it's a longer scale (25.5), it may suprise you with the right strings and adjustments.

My 7-string does have a 25.5 inch scale. But, if I have some success with making my Les Paul jazzy sounding, I might keep my 7-string as my rock guitar.

Thanks for the tips.

[Luan]

I have a rg1527, and I can get a good jazz tone, and I use .09.
Use the neck pickup, roll the tone pot just a bit, and eq the amp, try with the middles and highs specially.
Chorus can help after you have done this, too.

[fast1]

Originally Posted by Peter C

I play jazz-ish stuff on a LP-style guitar.

Try a 11 or 12 gauge set of strings, the Chromes for example. (Mine is strung with 13s).

Lower the pickup height. They're often set up too high (for Rock) = muddy tone.

Turn the amp volume up and guitar volume down.

Start off with all tone controls on 5 / halfway.

Don't automatically think to play Jazz you have to "roll back the treble".

I've read a lot of people saying that the Epiphone LP is a good guitar let down by the standard pickups. Stew-Mac sell an inexpensive replacement humbucker which seems to get good reviews: Golden Age Humbuckers at Stewart-MacDonald

Lastly, I don't know your Ibanez 7 string model, but if it's a longer scale (25.5), it may suprise you with the right strings and adjustments.

thanks for the link i will check it out.

[novio8]

I agree with most posts, but I will go for new amp, with better speaker

[RAQ]

Originally Posted by Peter C

I play jazz-ish stuff on a LP-style guitar ... Turn the amp volume up and guitar volume down ... I've read a lot of people saying that the Epiphone LP is a good guitar let down by the standard pickups.

Lots of good advice in all the posts here that I'm taking advantage of myself. I bought the Epi LP Standard as my first solid electric, along with the Marshall MG15DFX (for no other reason than Gibson and Marshall names go together) and so have found myself in your position. Eventually changed the pups for Gibson 490's (partly cost, partly because they're used in the Classic version of the 137). Of all my experiments, the LP through the Marshall is as good a combination as I get - not necesarily best, but a nice sound to have available. Sometime I tweak the Mids up a notch, and the Treble and Bass down, but when I feel I'm getting lost again I always reset everything to 12 o clock - they spend a lot of time at 12 o clock. They're never at full in either direction. Strings are 11s (11.14.21w.28.38.49), but maybe should experiment by reducing the bass more. And lowering the pickup height really does help. I know this just repeats (endorses) what the others are saying, but my contribution might be that I have found you fiddle first with the knobs that are easiest to fiddle with - then maybe, move on to stuff that matters more. I am just entering the string/pickup phase - and other posts here recently have emphasised setting up over immediately upgrading. I think the pup change is well worth it, but so is taking time over the setup. Also - a point that gets raised often - don't forget that the tone that comes out of your sound system from a CD of re-mastered tapes, is not necesarily the sound Wes or Joe heard from their amps. I've spent time and money (neither of which I regret) trying to sound like my CD player. I'm trying to concentrate on good tone in my playing these days, and tend to accept that I sound like whatever a well setup guitar sounds like.

[Paul Jerome]

At first, I pretty much turned my Epiphone Casino into a jazz box because I could afford it and i was just starting out and wanted a guitar that could be used for any music. ...#12 strings, flat wound....full Bass, cut treble...use only the bridge pickup, put your amp on with NO effects....if you can...I don't think a Les Paul has a Tailpiece, but an ebony tailpiece can help that jazz sound. Set your tone on the guitar to Bass and very little treble. That's about the sound of an Archtop full hollow body...BUT the F holes help and the hollowbody helps. That's probably why many or most Jazz players pick an Archtop. Carved is fuller sounding than laminated...The Nitro finish is also supposed to help the tone as opposed to Poly....good luck.After I saved money I bought a Peerless Cremona and that has everything I ever wanted in a Jazz guitar. I love the mellow sound. It was the closest to a Benedetto which can cost $40,0000 . Next guitar you'll get a jazz box and use the Les Paul as an all around player.