No wonder I havent liked any blackface or tweed amp Ive owned. Thanks for the explaination Jonathan. Looking forward to hearing your comments after your gigs.
hey jonathan, in your demo did you just set the amp controls the same way on both..or did you actually try to dial your gibby tone in on the v47?...
i'd also imagine with speaker break in or even a different speaker it'd warm up...but i wouldn't be averse to rollin back my guitar tone control a smidgen if needed either
Finally got to play a gig with my Vintage 47 amp. This band is a Bluegrass band where we also do some Merle Haggard tunes. When we do that, the dobro player switches to Pedal steel and I Switch from mandolin to 5 string electric mandolin. We usually play in decent sized places where we have to use our amps to fill the club so I bring my Quilter Micro Pro for those as it is so much more powerful than the Vintage 47. But this gig we had a sound man and he miced the amp, so thus the Vintage 47.
There are two sounds I ended up using. A very clean jazz sound like mandolinist Tiny Moore when he played with Haggard. This sound was easy to get plugging into the middle input of the 47. My friends said the sound was big and very warm through the PA but with plenty enough definition to hear every note clearly. I used this most of the time.
The other sound I like is Junior Bernards sound with Bob Wills on the Tiffany Transcriptions. A broken up nasty sound bet very cool. So for a couple of more energetic tunes, I plugged into the microphone channel and cranked the volume full. WOW! Spunded very much like Junior. What huge fun!
That is great you have an original EH-185 and the V47 amp. Do you know what makes the V47 a EH-185 style? The chassis and tubes look a lot different than EH-185s I have seen. I can't make much out from the pictures but does it have bass and treble controls? Do you know if there is a choke for the bass? The schematic EH-185 does not give the value for the choke, so I wonder what he used. I'm also curious what is done about the field coil speaker. That is not something one can just remove from the circuit.
There are TWO EH-185 circuits, the original 1939-1941 one (independent bass and treble controls, 3 6J7's, a 6N7, 5U4 rectifier, and 2 6L6's), and the short lived 1941-1942 one (single tone control, 3 6SQ7's, 6N7, and same 5U4, and 2 6L6's). The VA-185G is not an EXACT copy - but rather a modification of the existing Vintage 47 "Ric-style" circuit to have more of the essential character of a Gibson EH-185.
I've now been playing the VA-185G for over a month, including taking it with me on a 10 day trip with 7 gigs and 2 days of recording, and I have to say it really does deliver that essential Gibson EH character. It is not exactly the same, and while there are some things that could be done to get it even closer (field coil speaker, closed back cab, breaking in the speaker), I've been really, really happy with it. I've taken it on gigs where I could have just as easily brought the EH-185, and I wasn't disappointed.
Thanks for the update on the VA-185. Since I build amps, I was going to make an exact replica EH-150. But after looking at the schematic and pictures, decided against it. Too many unobtainable parts. Then I was going to make some type of hybrid amp, with a known good circuit and a EH-150 style cabinet, probably similar to what he had done with the VA-185G. Nice to know it has a sound comparable to the original.
One more update on mine. I had a Jason Lollar Charlie Christian pickup installed on my 5 string electric mandolin and did a gig last night with that and the Vintage 47. It was heavenly and I was very happy with the entire sound.
It's not often I see an interesting tube amp these days that I can lift and carry. I wonder if there would work in a small bar with a bass player, and light percussion, without using a microphone and PA. (Before the tone starts to break up and distort)
Since it's coming up on Charlie Christian's 100th Birthday this Friday, 7/29, I'm gonna be making a series of tribute videos. Here's one for "Flying Home":
It's a great idea of what the Vintage 47 VA-185G sounds like. At the moment it's got a pair of 5881's in the power section to keep it a bit cleaner.
By the way, if you're in the Los Angeles-area, we're doing a Charlie Christian Centennial Celebration show on Friday 7/29 as well. Details here at the facebook event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/1202966519776658/
We've got my Grand Slam Sextet (with vibes and clarinet for that full-BG sextet experience), and will be joined by special guest guitarist Nick Rossi from San Francisco, as well as by members of my Campus Five, so we can recreate the later BG-sextet tunes as well. It's gonna be a great night!
I've also been shedding "Stardust", so here's a clip of the CC solo played thought the Vintage '47.
It's cool to hear the break up on the chords/double stops.
That looks really nice man! I'm very interested in getting one of these myself. According to their website it's rated at 15watts with a 12 inch speaker. Is it loud? Could you gig with this?
@guido5 : as soon as I discovered the Duncan CC I ordered one ( 2005?) I got it in 2006, the guitar came much later, a local guy put them two together,Still tweaking pots & caps. It Is the more humble New York (post#19), not the monarch, suits me fine!
@ Ice Tea I m just a bed room player at the moment, but it should be alright in a trio setting!
Yes I like quite a lot I play it everyday, the neck is quite comfy,it did not move an inch in 8 years. The VA185G came with GZ34 & 6L6 but can work as well with a 5Y3 and 6V6 for a more bluesy feel, with an ES330 or an R4 you ve got into that territory: the Chicago sound at its best. From Charlie Christian. To T. Bone & Muddy Waters, Slim Harpo ....I won't have to worry about any GAS or AAS ( Amp Acquisition Syndrome) anYtime soon.
It looks and sounds great from the clips i´ve heard. I´m looking for a good amp that is portable, i´m not trying to nail the CC sound, i mostly play 335 style guitars and just looking for a warm and fat sound.
so my question is with the clean headroom of the amp, how is it compared to some other amp to get a little idea. For example compared to a blues junior would it come close to the headroom of that? would it be possible to play trio settings and coctail gigs in smaller venues?
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I don't have EH-185, but I do have the Spectator, which is Valco copy, but still with octal preamp tubes. Mine is 7W, but I play it on small gigs all the time, although mostly with no drummer. It serves well, but used to have very little headroom before I swapped 5881 power tube with 6L6. Now it's much better in this department.
I play a tele though, is your 335 with humbuckers, or P90? P90 I imagine would be a better fit. Compare to Blues Jr (which I would never use for anything jazz btw, but it's just me) clean tone, it would never match the pristine cleans of Fender amp IMO. At least mine doesn't. There is always a bit of break up. That's why I choose too!
Most of my guitars are with humbuckers, don´t have any with p90s. I agree with you on the blues junior, that is an amp i´m not a big fan of for jazz but i have an idea about the clean headroom of the Blues junior and that´s the reason i mentioned it
Hi Jonathan, I ve relied on Stan Ayeroff’s book for Charly’s transcription,I juste love The « Pretty Baby » section inside Stardusty ,memories of Ruggles of Redgap!I got my VA 185G in September, the tone quest is over, but still, a whole lot of a job before I’ll be satisfied with my rendition of “Swing to Bop”,& the second part is sure a sweet pleasure too!
On a side note, I ve had some interesting mails from Steve while he was working on mine (220/240v European settings) you can use it also with the 5Y3 / 6V6s configurations which is great for that P90 Chicago sound. Really a very nice And affordable amp, getting an original Gibson one here would be quite dear and finding a tech to fix it seems impossible. It is light , it is lovely, it does the job.
It won't have a serial # but you can check the factory order # stamped on the inside back viewed through the f hole.
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