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  1. #1

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    Since many years I have this awesome 1948 Gibson L7 non-cutaway. Now I want to have a DeArmond 1100 Rhythm Chief installed.

    My first question concerns the positioning of the pickup. I noticed a lot of the DA p.u.'s are mounted to the neck as close as possible, others some inches lower.

    On the net I found a DeArmond installation & operation manual (Rowe Industries) from way back ... The manual states:

    'To determine location of microphone (=p.u.), depress 1st string to lowest playing position on finger board and move microphone as close to finger board as possible, or until clearance between string and top of microphone measures approximately 1/16". It is important that this 1/16" clearance be maintained so that maximum output may be obtained. Microphone may be moved closer to bridge for different tone timbres'

    Any experience, advise that would help?

    and

    'The lateral location of the microphone in relation to the strings is essential. To assure a balanced pickup of each string the model identification marking, on the cover insert, should be directly beneath the 1st (E) string'

    I don't see any identification marking on the DA 1100! So should the adjustable poles/screws be used to determinate the lateral location?

    'Of course' the short neck rod is missing and I need it! I know Kokomo Music sells new ones at $35. What do you think is this a fair price or a lot of bones for such a small piece of hardware? Any (other) suggestions?


    DeArmond 1100 Rhythm Chief-dearmond-rhythm-chief-1100-jpg

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  3. #2

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    Here's a suggestion . . . "if you can't swim, stay out of the high water".

    You have two of the finer components for jazz guitar ever made . . an L7 and an 1100 Rhythm Chief pup. Now is not the time to be thinking DYI. Take those components to a competent guitar tech or luthier . . . but, choose one with a good reputation of arch top knowledge.

  4. #3

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    First, forget about Kokomo Music, they have been closed for years...

    Then, if you want to have the short rod and do not know what you are doing, by all means have someone competent do it.

    What you could do yourself, is get the long rod, which is temporary, does not involve drilling holes (like the short rod does), and with which you can move the pickup up or down.

    Here is my DeArmond FHC-B. Different pickup than the Rhythm Chief, but same system.







  5. #4
    Thanks guys, I started playing guitar way back in the very early 60's. Never ever did some of the tech stuff myself. I stick to my own things. So no way I'm gonna do this job myself. just try to gather some knowledge / experience

  6. #5
    Nice photo of your archtop Eddie ! thanks for the info. I'll have a luthier do the job with a neck rod (if I can find one) Just want to know a bit more about it myself

  7. #6

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    I installed an 1100 on my '47 L-5 not long ago. I did the entire job myself and, in spite of the odds, it turned out flawlessly. After spending an insane amount of $ on the pickup, I was keenly aware of how careful and meticulous I needed to be. I can offer advice but at the moment I'm not able to write for long.

  8. #7

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    Just to be nitpicking, I think the Rhythm Chief was model 1000, whereas the model 1100 was called Super Chief ;-)

    Henk what type of control box do you have with the pickup ? Would you want to mount that on the pickguard too ?

    If you need rods ask Mitch this is the email address MS64RED.EBAY at COMCAST.NET

  9. #8

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    Model 1000 was the Rhythm Chief, and 1100 was the Adjustable Rhythm Chief. There was no Super Chief AFAIK. I recently read a whole thread on this naming topic on another forum. Someone posted a photo of an original 1100 box.

    Also, I got my neck rod from Mitch too... But only under duress. It seems he has some difficulty with his hands (health issues), and finds them very hard to make. I traded an FHC Guitar Mike for a gold neck rod, but it took a bit of convincing and a bunch of chatting about jazz guitars, DeArmonds, and so on. I couldn't find any other leads on that elusive neck rod. Good luck!
    Last edited by rpguitar; 05-27-2012 at 08:00 PM.

  10. #9

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    Hi Roger,

    How does the DeArmond 1100 compare tone-wise with the Seymour Duncan/Jason Lollar/Kent Armstrong Handmade Johnny Smith pups or other pickups of this ilk such as the Lindy Fralin or Tom Short floating pups or the Benedetto S6? What makes the DeArmond 1100 special?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    Hi Roger,

    How does the DeArmond 1100 compare tone-wise with the Seymour Duncan/Jason Lollar/Kent Armstrong Handmade Johnny Smith pups or other pickups of this ilk such as the Lindy Fralin or Tom Short floating pups or the Benedetto S6? What makes the DeArmond 1100 special?
    The DeArmonds are single coils where the Johnny Smith style pickups are all humbuckers. The Tom Short may be a single coil I can't remember. What makes the DeArmonds so special IMO is that they seem to be the best of both worlds, they're really fat sounding like a humbucker but they still retain the clarity and articulation of the single coil. The trebles are bright and clear but big and the basses are crisp and clear too. I love them.

  12. #11

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    Jason's reply is as good as it gets. I was pondering how to respond in a meaningful way, and he took care of it for me. Thanks!

  13. #12

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    Thank you, JasonC and Roger. There's no turning back from the DeArmond now for me.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    Thank you, JasonC and Roger. There's no turning back from the DeArmond now for me.
    I can tell you the story of someone I know who is very good friends with a certain retired guitarist who lives in Colorado, who has had many guitars named after him, from various companies, including Guild, Gibson, and Heritage. One day, my friend took his favorite guitar with him when he went to visit said guitarist in Colorado.

    The retired guitarist said that this was the "finest guitar he has ever played, without exception".

    the pickup on this guitar was a DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1100, with adjustable pole pieces. Even better than the floating pickup that is actually named after said retired guitarist from Colorado.

  15. #14

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    That's a cool story about the unnamed but obvious guitarist. I wonder what the actual guitar was that had this 1100 on it?

    After agonizing for a long time, I decided to mount an 1100 on my L-5 for three reasons: 1) It is period correct; 2) It is befitting of the L-5's status in terms of general marketplace consensus; and 3) Only the DeArmonds (Rhythm Chief and FHC) and the Kent Armstrong 2D would fit under the strings at the end of the fingerboard on my 1947 guitar. It was extremely frustrating, but there was 1/32" of needed clearance that just would not magically materialize, no matter how long I thought about it. The only pickup among these with adjustable polepieces was the 1100. I felt that was essential, because I like to use both nickel roundwound and bronze strings from time to time.

    So while I am extremely happy with the setup and am "done" futzing with this L-5 as a result, I can't necessarily claim that the 1100 is God's gift to all floating pickups. I mention this only in an effort to keep you grounded in your expectations! After all, it is very expensive, especially if you find a gold one that is nearly pristine like mine. Of course I was thrilled to find such an example, because it is the perfect complement for my blonde L-5. But it cost about 20% of what I paid for the whole guitar (which was in itself a very good deal)!

    That said, it ended up being one of those things that was done just right, with no expense or effort spared, and while it was painful at the time, I have no regrets. It helps me enjoy the guitar a lot more rather than constantly wondering "what if?"

    Good luck and go for it!

    Roger

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpguitar
    That's a cool story about the unnamed but obvious guitarist. I wonder what the actual guitar was that had this 1100 on it?

    After agonizing for a long time, I decided to mount an 1100 on my L-5 for three reasons: 1) It is period correct; 2) It is befitting of the L-5's status in terms of general marketplace consensus; and 3) Only the DeArmonds (Rhythm Chief and FHC) and the Kent Armstrong 2D would fit under the strings at the end of the fingerboard on my 1947 guitar. It was extremely frustrating, but there was 1/32" of needed clearance that just would not magically materialize, no matter how long I thought about it. The only pickup among these with adjustable polepieces was the 1100. I felt that was essential, because I like to use both nickel roundwound and bronze strings from time to time.

    So while I am extremely happy with the setup and am "done" futzing with this L-5 as a result, I can't necessarily claim that the 1100 is God's gift to all floating pickups. I mention this only in an effort to keep you grounded in your expectations! After all, it is very expensive, especially if you find a gold one that is nearly pristine like mine. Of course I was thrilled to find such an example, because it is the perfect complement for my blonde L-5. But it cost about 20% of what I paid for the whole guitar (which was in itself a very good deal)!

    That said, it ended up being one of those things that was done just right, with no expense or effort spared, and while it was painful at the time, I have no regrets. It helps me enjoy the guitar a lot more rather than constantly wondering "what if?"

    Good luck and go for it!

    Roger
    It was an oval hole carved Koontz arch top.

    Have you A/Bed the RC with Statler pickups, the imitation made in the Netherlands? Those go for much less. Wonder how they sound.

  17. #16

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    I have not heard the Statler, at least not in my own hands. I exchanged friendly and informative emails with the fellow who makes them, though. His pickup was 1mm too tall for me to use. I was quite disappointed!

  18. #17

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    Has anyone here A/B'ed the FHC and both Rhythm Chief 1000 and 1100 on the same guitar, perhaps with nickel strings? The RC 1000 is twice as much and the 1100 can be three to four times more than the FHC. I really love my FHC, but I wonder what difference should be expected with the two higher end Rhythm Chiefs.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpguitar
    I have not heard the Statler, at least not in my own hands. I exchanged friendly and informative emails with the fellow who makes them, though. His pickup was 1mm too tall for me to use. I was quite disappointed!
    Hmm. 1 mm too small? Just out of curiosity, I'm still thinking of, when I get enough money together, having a Solomon imperial built--could they install the Statler pup on that? Just wondering. I am in love with that guitar ever since you demoed it, and have not forgotten about it.

  20. #19

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    The Statler was 1mm too tall, meaning that it would not allow the strings to clear the top of the pickup at the end of the fingerboard. The Statler is not an absolutely perfect physical copy of the DeArmond.

    My Solomon has a Kent Armstrong 2D on it, which is quite shallow, but there is actually plenty of space for something deeper. Also, Erich initially built the guitar as an acoustic, and we added the pickup later when the guitar was back at his shop. The end of the fingerboard required surgery in order to do that. I let Erich take care of it and did not ask too many questions. If you had a guitar purpose-built to have a mounted pickup, you'd have no issue I'd imagine. I'm sure Erich would do what you need/want.

  21. #20

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    Another option for you is to have someone like Pete Biltoft make you a version. Pete is great to work with and does good work. I have him make the DeArmond clones I put on my guitars. I sent him my vintage Rhythm Chief and told him I didn't care if he had to destroy it to figure out what makes it so great and then make me an adjustable pole version. His pickup sounds very very similar to my vintage DeArmond 1000 but with adjustable poles in a Johnny Smith style package. I need to do a good video showing how that pickup sounds.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonc
    told him I didn't care if he had to destroy it
    So Jason... did he destroy it?? The clone sounds like a really great option for those with guitars on which it will fit.

  23. #22

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    Thankfully no. I still have it and it will eventually go on a model I have yet to build. I think he just opened it up and figured out what the coils look like and resistance and magnet type etc...I say coils because I was told (not by Pete but somebody else) that the DeArmond pickups actually have two coils inside them one for the B and E strings and one for the E, A, D and G strings. As an aside, I have always theorized that the Johnny Smith pickup was trying to be a humbucking version of the DeArmond but I have no verification it's just my hunch.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonc
    What makes the DeArmonds so special IMO is that they seem to be the best of both worlds, they're really fat sounding like a humbucker but they still retain the clarity and articulation of the single coil. The trebles are bright and clear but big and the basses are crisp and clear too. I love them.
    This description sounds like all the descriptions I've read of the various CC (Charlie Christian) pickups available.

  25. #24

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    The CC is another great pickup. I would say that is also pretty good description for the CC too. I've found that the CC's are quite a bit noisier than the DeArmonds plus they require a fairly large hole. But if a fella could make a floating CC that actually sounds like one then I'd be all over it.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonc
    The CC is another great pickup. I would say that is also pretty good description for the CC too. I've found that the CC's are quite a bit noisier than the DeArmonds plus they require a fairly large hole. But if a fella could make a floating CC that actually sounds like one then I'd be all over it.
    I put a CC (for HB route, by Jason Lollar) on my ES-339, and my teacher was impressed with the tone, in fact asking if they could make it for his guitars, which generally have floating pickups. I don't think they make CCs as floating pups, though.

    Just goes to show you, here we are 60-70 years later, and one would be hard pressed to find BETTER jazz guitar pickups than the original ones first used on jazz boxes: the Charlie Christian for laminate archies and the DeArmond RC for carved boxes.