cable? Do they matter that much?

[Jazzman301]

With all the talk about various guitar and amp components no one seems to evver mention cables. What are you cats using and why? Do you think the various cables that a company like Monster offers really make and audible difference for the average guy out playing jazz? I meean the audiophiles can chime in about this or that in the studio but most of us are either playing at home or out on gigs not trying to lay down a track.

I am using a standard 12' Monster cable...no reason than my guitar buddies all said it was the best brand...It works...beyond that I don't know...

'Mike

[Insufferable_Rhythm]

There are only two practical concerns: mechanical robustness and capacitance per foot.

The first can only really be ascertained through experience and the second, a specification, can be measured or obtained from the manufacturer.

The capacitance per foot can have significant influence on tone, but must be considered in a system with your other equipment. To generalize, low capacitance per foot means a "transparent" cable assuming reasonable length.

Ignore the ad copy.

[jorgemg1984]

I have A / B two low capacitance cables (George ls 23 pF / foot and Sommer Grindycop Beast 27.5 pF / foot) and the differences were quite noticeable - the George Ls has much more high mids and treble and the Grindycop Beast is much sweeter in that department and has a little more low mids.

The George Ls were actually acause of ice pick in my rig and the Grindycop Beast helped taming that.

I would not spend big money on cables - a Grindycop Beast made by my tech with 3m and Neutrik plugs is around 30€. I wouldn't pay much more than that. About Mosnter I always hear they are better at marketing than cables.

[Atticus]

I advise against Monster for two reasons: first, the company is like a factory for frivolous lawsuits. They've sued Pixar over the name Monster's Inc, Monster.com, and the Chicago Bears, unofficially the "Monsters of the Midway." Second, in comparing them to some cheap cables (20 ft, $8, picked 'em up for stocking my music room for cheap) I couldn't hear a difference, but I could hear a difference between those and higher end brands like Mogami.

I use Planet Waves because they strike a balance between good sound and reasonable price. I figure, why would you spend money on a nice guitar and amp and then ruin it with a cheap cable? I can hear a difference, maybe it isn't real, but it matters enough to be worth the extra money.

[Help!I'maRock!]

Originally Posted by Insufferable_Rhythm

There are only two practical concerns: mechanical robustness and capacitance per foot.

The first can only really be ascertained through experience and the second, a specification, can be measured or obtained from the manufacturer.

The capacitance per foot can have significant influence on tone, but must be considered in a system with your other equipment. To generalize, low capacitance per foot means a "transparent" cable assuming reasonable length.

Ignore the ad copy.

agreed.

i mostly use Quantum cable, but i've also had the same Spectraflex for 15 years and it's always been awesome.

[marcwhy]

I use these, and am very pleased: Death Valley Cable Company, the world's best guitar cable, handmade one at a time They have some good info on "cable hype," too, which is worth reading.

Marc

[cosmic gumbo]

Swiss navy submarine intercom cable is the way to go.

[oldane]

Originally Posted by Insufferable_Rhythm

There are only two practical concerns: mechanical robustness and capacitance per foot.

I agree. One may add shielding as a third parameter. Some cheap cables have insufficient shielding and pick up noise but most of the well known brands are OK in this respect.

I can notice a difference between different cables in it varies in how much high end they cut off. That may have something to do with the capacitance (a normal tone control is a pot + a capacitator).

I use Planet Waves and DeMarzio cables which works well for me and are readily available, but there no doubt are many other excellent cables out there. Monster cables have a good reputation for good quality, but I have read about their nasty and aggressive lawsuits against anyone using the word "monster" in almost any context, and I won't support a company with that attitude.

[AlohaJoe]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Swiss navy submarine intercom cable is the way to go.

Only if they've been properly dried out.

[kris]

Try VOVOX - Swiss cable.The best cables on the market.
I use model Sonorus.
I like to use this cable...you will see differeces.

[mattymel]

i believe there eis a little mojo going on between the right guitar with the right cable, that being said, the cables i buy are the ones that i know won't break on me, and if they do i get another one free. for me those are Mogami. but sometimes i think that really crappy $5 cables sound really good when they aren't broken.

[Pierrot]

No more Monsters for me: one day, I took off the male jack of my guitar and suddenly and with no reason at all, it broke. (Yes, the 6,35 jack itself!!!)

Besides that, I agree that good cables, with low capacitance and good connectors (Neutrik for instance), contribute to obtain a better sound.

[Pierrot]

Originally Posted by kris

Try VOVOX - Swiss cable.The best cables on the market.
I use model Sonorus.
I like to use this cable...you will see differeces.

I didn't know they were Swiss...now I understand their CRAZY prices.

[kris]

Originally Posted by Pierrot

I didn't know they were Swiss...now I understand their CRAZY prices.

Expensive cables...but realy good in recording situations and gigs.
VOVOX
d_son_prod_02


VOVOX® News
I HATE listening to cable!

I've never heard a significant difference in cables I've tested before so I stopped testing. Then someone whose opinion I respect suggested that I try cables from VOVOX.

For the first time I heard a significant difference.

David Kutch

[mambosun]

Originally Posted by Jazzman301

With all the talk about various guitar and amp components no one seems to evver mention cables. What are you cats using and why? Do you think the various cables that a company like Monster offers really make and audible difference for the average guy out playing jazz? I meean the audiophiles can chime in about this or that in the studio but most of us are either playing at home or out on gigs not trying to lay down a track.

I am using a standard 12' Monster cable...no reason than my guitar buddies all said it was the best brand...It works...beyond that I don't know...

'Mike

The supposed sound difference will be extremely subtle at best, not always repeatable, consistent, and surely lost against other more audible factors.
You'll have to confront a very poorly designed cable against a top one to demonstrate any audible relevant improvement.

Eventhough a difference actually exists, would it fit your taste, would it make it a better sounding cable?
You'll have to read comments in Hifi forums to see how crazy people could go for just a copper wire!!

As stated above, for me what matters are robustness/ reliability, shielding and capacitance, though the last parameter strongly depends on cable lenght.

One day , I might have noticed a slight sound difference between a no-name cable and a Klotz Lagrange but I'm not 100% sure it wasn't not pure imaginery.

Anyway, it's not necessary to break the bank for a well constructed and reliable guitar cable.

[Meggy]

Found this when doing a google for "low capacitance guitar cable" - not trying to advertise for this company and I have no connection with them, but it does on the face of it seem like an interesting and convincing demonstration of the effects of guitar cable capacitance on tone:

YouTube Video

[SearchForMeaning]

Originally Posted by Jazzman301

With all the talk about various guitar and amp components no one seems to evver mention cables.
'Mike

I thought there was quite a bit of mention about cables here as a matter of fact:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...iscussion.html

I find the search function on this forum really helpful. It was really easy to get the administrator to turn it on for my account. Well worth the effort.
Heh, for cables, I use anything. I've been playing with an amp and getting old long enough that my high end's trashed anyway.

[SearchForMeaning]

Originally Posted by Pierrot

No more Monsters for me: one day, I took off the male jack of my guitar and suddenly and with no reason at all, it broke. (Yes, the 6,35 jack itself!!!)

Besides that, I agree that good cables, with low capacitance and good connectors (Neutrik for instance), contribute to obtain a better sound.

Hey that same thing happened to me! Then I went to Daddy's to get a return and they were out of business! God is telling me to play acoustic.

[jorgemg1984]

Low capacitante is not better than high capacitance I think. SRV liked the trebe roll-off of high capacitance for example. It's like buffer vs true bypass - some people like the extra treble a good buffer gives and others like the treble roll off of a true bypass rig.

This is all more relevant on big stages with very big cables where the added capacitance can be quite high. With small cables it's not so relevant I think.

[Jazzman301]

You know I usually use the search feature....So I appologize for my forum faux paux...However it seems that with 18 posts in less than 24 hours clearly people felt the need to chime in on this SO THERE.

Another masshole strikes again...haha I say that with all the love one masshole can have for a fellow masshole.

What I get from this thus far is that cables make a difference. BUT you will more than likely not really hear it unless you get something VERY high end or somthing VERY low end.

'Mike

[whiskey02]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Low capacitante is not better than high capacitance I think. SRV liked the trebe roll-off of high capacitance for example. It's like buffer vs true bypass - some people like the extra treble a good buffer gives and others like the treble roll off of a true bypass rig.

This is all more relevant on big stages with very big cables where the added capacitance can be quite high. With small cables it's not so relevant I think.

Just what I was going to say Jorg!

I'll go ahead and repeat the warning to NOT buy products made by "Monster". It's not that they suck, they're ok, but overpriced, but the company behaves like a lowlife motherfucker, suing everbody they can, including a small family owned miniature golf / driving range named Monster, in buisness long before the cable co. They've done this many many times. Give them the Karma they deserve: don't buy from them!

[barrymclark]

Honestly, and gearheads will love this, I really don't care about the cable.... or the amp... or the guitar. If it sounds good... I don't care what brand it is, how it does what it does or where it came from.

If it is a $200 amp with a $200 guitar and the free cheapy cable that came with the pair... if it sounds good to you... then you are all set. There are those, however, that genuinely like the sound that a specific more expensive amp, guitar and/or cable may produce. Then there are those that shop off spec sheets.

I was once the boutique guy... then a spec sheet guy. Now... I just don't care. I have heard people that had ENTIRE RIGS (guitar included) that cost well under a grand... and their tone put others with VERY expensive gear down for the count. That told me one thing... it had more to do with him than the gear. Try different cables, if one talks to you more than the others.. then awesome.

I do have Monster Cables. The only reason I have them is I got them free when I worked for a dealer. Otherwise, I'd just get some middle of the road cable that looked to be sturdy. If my hands can't do it... all a more conductive cable will do is make that more apparent. If my hands can do it, no cable quality, short of malfunction, will stop it.

[Funkwire]

Speaking of cords, did you see these are making a comeback? I laughed...

[ronjazz]

It's unfortunate that Monster Cable is run by such litigious monsters, for the one reason that they are well-distributed, and if one fails while out on the road, a dealer will replace it for you immediately no matter where you are. I bought some a few years ago, because I liked that concept. Of course, since then, I've never had one fail. I do prefer more flexibility in cables, so lately the Monster is there for backup, and I use less expensive (although not the lowest-priced) cables. I've not noticed a sonic difference.

[Hammertone]

I have a box of throwaway cables that I use until they break. I get them for free.

I have a bunch of Evidence cables that I got in trade, that sound way better, haven't broken yet, have Neutrik connectors that I really like, and have all the specs required for engineering excellence (although I have never read any of the specs).

I'm kinda with barrymclarkon this, especially since I love obscure and goofy gear, but I can tell you that the Evidence cable makes me feel way better about myself. I've changed my life, turned into a nine-year-old Hindu boy, got rid of my wife.

[Synchro]

Originally Posted by Atticus

I advise against Monster for two reasons: first, the company is like a factory for frivolous lawsuits. They've sued Pixar over the name Monster's Inc, Monster.com, and the Chicago Bears, unofficially the "Monsters of the Midway." Second, in comparing them to some cheap cables (20 ft, $8, picked 'em up for stocking my music room for cheap) I couldn't hear a difference, but I could hear a difference between those and higher end brands like Mogami.

I ran into a Monster employee at NAMM, all I could do was button my lip. They do not get one thin dime of my money.

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Swiss navy submarine intercom cable is the way to go.

Purist!

Originally Posted by whiskey02

Just what I was going to say Jorg!

I'll go ahead and repeat the warning to NOT buy products made by "Monster". It's not that they suck, they're ok, but overpriced, but the company behaves like a lowlife motherfucker, suing everbody they can, including a small family owned miniature golf / driving range named Monster, in buisness long before the cable co. They've done this many many times. Give them the Karma they deserve: don't buy from them!

I do believe that they'll get what is coming to them in the long run. It's pretty arrogant to presume that they own the rights to a word.

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Low capacitante is not better than high capacitance I think. SRV liked the trebe roll-off of high capacitance for example. It's like buffer vs true bypass - some people like the extra treble a good buffer gives and others like the treble roll off of a true bypass rig.

This is all more relevant on big stages with very big cables where the added capacitance can be quite high. With small cables it's not so relevant I think.

I find it amazing how many players obsess over not losing highs. I've never had much of a problem that way. When I played Fenders it was like ice-picks and razor blades unless I backed the tone off somewhere along the way.

I use George L's myself, not because of any performance claims but simply because they can be re-terminated in a matter of seconds requiring no more on the way of tools than my swiss army knife. I keep 2 or 3 in my gig bag and that's enough to get me through anything.

[Hammertone]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Swiss navy submarine intercom cable is the way to go.

Originally Posted by AlohaJoe

Only if they've been properly dried out.

I suspect that you do not need to worry about that with the Swiss Navy.

[jorgemg1984]

Originally Posted by Synchro

I find it amazing how many players obsess over not losing highs. I've never had much of a problem that way. When I played Fenders it was like ice-picks and razor blades unless I backed the tone off somewhere along the way.

I use George L's myself, not because of any performance claims but simply because they can be re-terminated in a matter of seconds requiring no more on the way of tools than my swiss army knife. I keep 2 or 3 in my gig bag and that's enough to get me through anything.

I agree with you - loosing highs can be a good thing if it doesn't turn the sound muddy. I used George Ls for exactly the same reasons but those are some pretty trebly cables... I think most people would hear that.

[pingu]

How much difference different (capacitance) cables make can be extreme !
depending on the input impedance of you amp
(and the impedance against frequency curve of your pickup)

Just did some tests on different cables cos I had a fault to chase up
and apart from tone differences there were big level differences
one cable was twice as loud as another !
compare a short cable to a long one its big effect ........

[ronjazz]

Originally Posted by Hammertone

I have a box of throwaway cables that I use until they break. I get them for free.

I have a bunch of Evidence cables that I got in trade, that sound way better, haven't broken yet, have Neutrik connectors that I really like, and have all the specs required for engineering excellence (although I have never read any of the specs).

I'm kinda with barrymclarkon this, especially since I love obscure and goofy gear, but I can tell you that the Evidence cable makes me feel way better about myself. I've changed my life, turned into a nine-year-old Hindu boy, got rid of my wife.

Dood, you rool, man.