Paint over spray removal from a Nitro finish?

[2bornot2bop]

Hi All,

I've recently acquired a vintage Japanese Yamaha AE1200S that arrived with a few dot's of what appears as dried white paint over spray on various spots about the guitars finish. It's barely noticeable but I know they're there. I tried removing them with Dunlop 65 but that wouldn't do the trick.

Any suggestions on product or method to remove light over spray from a Nitro finish?



Thanks in advance.

2b

[PTChristopher]

TooB,

>>> Any suggestions on product or method to remove light over spray from a Nitro finish?

Sure, but what makes you think that what you have is definitely overspray (of what? why white "overspray"???)?

First off:

Make 100% sure what the finish is. This is pretty easy to do if you know what you are doing, and quite difficult if you do not.

Then:

What is the offending stuff? Truly something over the finish?

It is not at all uncommon to have tiny bubbles suspended in a clear coat. This can look like some sort of "overspray".

So yes, you can clean almost anything. But you absolutely can make a complete mess if you do not first make sure what you are looking at.

All in my heavy-handed opinion.

But really, do not jump at some sight-unseen advice to start spritzing magic goo on the guitar before getting to the bottom of the actual situation.

Chris

[Patrick2]

I agree that trying to identify the spots is best. But, that's not always possible. If it was my guitar, I would use Virtuoso Premium Cleaner, in accordance with the directions on the bottle. If that worked and removed the spots (which it probably will) I would follow that up with Virtuoso polish. If it didn't work and I really loved the guitar, and the spots were really bothering me, I would take it to a competent luthier and have the whole guitar buffed out.

[2bornot2bop]

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

TooB,

what makes you think that what you have is definitely overspray (of what? why white "overspray"???)?


Make 100% sure what the finish is. This is pretty easy to do if you know what you are doing, and quite difficult if you do not.

What is the offending stuff? Truly something over the finish?

So yes, you can clean almost anything. But you absolutely can make a complete mess if you do not first make sure what you are looking at.

Chris

To be more specific the finish has the appearance of small airborne white paint dots that have randomly landed atop a dark sunburst finish.

Yes it's truly something atop the finish for it's felt when one runs their finger around the surface of the finish where it meets the dot. Simply put one can feel where ones finger is obstructed by a dot's edge atop the finish. This is clearly not something embedded into the guitar's finish nor is it something native to the guitar's finish.

It's common knowledge that the vintage of this made in Japan model of the AE1200S guitar only used a Nitro finish. The later produced made in Taiwan models I've previously owned may have used a poly blend finish. Aside from that I trust my own experience between other guitars I've owned that possessed either a Nitro or a Poly finish. The finish on this guitar is no different than the finish on either my Guild X-500 or X-170 guitars. Even differing Nitro finishes on varying archtops have their own feel to them that's easily discernible both to the eye and touch. So in short this is a Nitro finish, and the issue is clearly not something inherent in the guitars natural finish. It's paint that was perhaps applied to a nearby wall while the guitar was nearby and not protected inside its case. It's not that prevalent really...I can count the number of dots...about 25 or so covering the entire surface of the guitar with the exception of the fretboard and neck.

But I appreciate the input just the same.

[PTChristopher]

Hi Too-B,

Great, so definitely on top of the finish.

I understand that you are 100% certain of the finish type. If I am ever not certain for some reason, I test one of two areas: A tiny spot under the truss rod cover or under the tailpiece mount.

The tricky part in removing anything from a nitro (as we say) finish is that this lacquer does not "cure", ever. The solvent evaporates, but there is no cross-linking or other transformation of the of the material, such as happens in polyurethane, polyester, acrylic, epoxy, etc..

So with nitro finishes (as well as others like shellac) you have to be careful to not use any solvent that can easily dissolve the finish. On the other hand, the nice thing about a nitro finish is that repairs can be truly seamless, with new areas of lacquer achieving 100% burn-in with the original finish. The new lacquer slightly dissolves the old finish as it is applied.

Anyway, my dull blather here is just to maybe give someone less familiar with guitar finishes an idea of what you are up against.

I have never used the cleaner that P2 suggests above, but I am sure he makes a solid recommendation. Whenever in doubt, or using something for the first time, I remove the truss rod cover (or tailpiece) and get a very small area of the hidden finish VERY wet with the new goop, and leave it wet for far longer than I will on the exposed area of the guitar.

After doing this 2 or 3 times I look for any softening, dulling, or other damage to the finish - then proceed if all looks OK.

If necessary, it may be that you'll have to mechanically remove the white dots - sanding it off, in effect.

Even a little latex home interior paint can be more resistant to cleaners than the lacquer. Mechanical removal can be difficult without some controlled damage to the clear top coat of lacquer. Damage to the top coat is repairable to 100% as good as new.

Any damage that gets down to the color coats is also fixable but gets into some very time-consuming and tricky color matching.

So sorry to go on and on here, but I am hoping some of this might help.

Chris

[PTChristopher]

Another thought:

Have you tried just flicking off one of the dots with something like a #11 x-acto?

If the white dots did not burn into the nitro, they may have poor mechanical contact and be removable one at a time. Any slight nitro damage can then be repaired with a drop-fill.

Just a semi-thought.

Chris

[2bornot2bop]

This is a job beyond my paygrade. This is a semi desirable guitar due to the fact they were produced in limited numbers before Yamaha gave in to threats from Gibson to 'knock it off'. I'm going to drop it off at my local luthier whose one of the best. He works with nitro on a regular basis.

Thanks all for your helpful suggestions.

BTW, I'm shocked there's not more knowledge or information available on this guitar via the 'net. Sure, it's not a real L5, but c'mon, pop in a pair of Seth Lover SD-55's and you'd not know it.

Enjoy,
2b

[stevedenver]

nice looking guit!
lets see the headstock

i am unclear as to if this localized or all over-it actually makes little difference as to what i suggest


a thought woud be to wet the spotted area(s) with lighter fluid, and do so repeatedly, as needed, and as much as over a couple of days-this might seep under the paint spots and also help to loosen them-it will not hurt nitro or poly-

if its all over , like the feeling of fine 'sandpaper'--you simply need to buff it off/out

i suggest using novus plastic polish -polish the affected area-it will likely simply buff out / out the spots
i use the fine, it is mildy (very mildly) abrasive and if these are tiny little specs should do the trick -it might take some elbow grease adn more than one go-it will work eventually

while i am confident of what im telling you, you can always try my suggestions in a small area-
one presumption i am making is that the white paint landed when the underlying finish was dry-if not , it may not be easy, and may have 'melded' in a way, with the nitro

but typically, when paint lands on a dry surface-usually there is a tiny bit of dust and that prevents really good adhesion-latex in particular should give way with a bit a rubbing -mineral paint would be a lot more difficult to remove as its adhesion seems to be much better

[SamBooka]

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

This is a semi desirable guitar due to the fact they were produced in limited numbers before Yamaha gave in to threats from Gibson to 'knock it off'. 2b

Didnt know that.. thought they made them for a good 10-15 years or so.
The guy who sold me my ES165 had a 1990ish model but I seem to recall seeing them long before that.

[2bornot2bop]

Originally Posted by stevedenver

nice looking guit!
lets see the headstock

i am unclear as to if this localized or all over-it actually makes little difference as to what i suggest

Sorry, I thought I made it clear that there were RANDOM drops about all area's of the guitar. Thanks!

2b

[2bornot2bop]

Originally Posted by SamBooka

Didnt know that.. thought they made them for a good 10-15 years or so.
The guy who sold me my ES165 had a 1990ish model but I seem to recall seeing them long before that.

I've owned 4 of these now, this being my 4th. The previous 3 were each MADE IN TAIWAN models which Yamaha switched to in 1990-91 to the best of my knowledge. This sunburst MADE IN JAPAN model I just acquired above is an even rarer model. They were produced between 1985-'89 and it's suggested only 200 were produced. I acquired it to see how this model compared to my former Taiwanese models.

A mini web reviewer wrote and I quote: "These were produced in the 80's and the S model was the most desirable since it has a solid top rather than laminate like the AE1200. I have heard this model referred to as the ''law suit'' model since for its similarity to a Gibson Super 400 or L5 CES and the model gained some fame ala U2. I own a L5 CES and believe in some ways the quality of the AE1200S is better."

The 1200S was eventually followed by a 1200SIII sometime in the later 90's and then years later Yamaha discontinued it and later produced an AE1500X that was a totally different design. The AE1200S was Yamaha's closest effort at recreating an L5. They're really nice guitars featuring quality ebony fretboards w/ abalone inlays, that when sold new were supplied with both a beautiful ebony and a Tom bridge. I've yet to acquire one used that came with each bridge. Actually, the ebony bridge is so beefy it's one of THE nicest bridges I've come across price no object. It smokes the bridges on both my X-500 and my Eastman 880CE John Pisano.



After speaking with the luthier this morning I'm tossing around the idea of going for a total refinish due to some other finish issues on the guitar. If I do a refinish I'll change it from this factory dark orange burst that I've not seen on any guitar ever to a traditional Gibson tobacco sunburst like what's on this Gibson SuperV currently for sale on the 'bay. If I only had a spare $6k or more.




Here's my former two AE1200S'.



Thanks all for the assist!
2b

[max chill]

As any fine woodworker knows, this will remove just about anything you can imagine from a wood surface. Good luck!

[2bornot2bop]

Originally Posted by max chill

As any fine woodworker knows, this will remove just about anything you can imagine from a wood surface. Good luck!

You're late. Someone on the Heritage forum already suggested that.