Is this a big deal to anyone besides me?

WhoisLevang · #1 01-21-2012, 07:30 PM

My guitar has a "floating" pickup. The shielded wire which comes out of the pickup and goes back in via the F hole, contacts the top of the guitar, only right under the pickup. Being picky about details for some things, ( I only lean my guitar facing the wall or corner so gravity slightly counteracts string tension...

and of course I prefer not to lean it at all...) the idea that the shielded insulated wire could have the slightest deadening effect bugs me.
What say?

KevinV · #2 01-21-2012, 07:49 PM

Not to me. I don't mind how your pickup wire has muted out a portion of your tone.

WhoisLevang · #3 01-21-2012, 07:55 PM

And you can't see it from your house anyway, right? LOL! It doesn't seem to have a major effect, BUT, that's kind of what I think too.
Thanks Kevin!

KevinV · #4 01-21-2012, 08:13 PM

I'm just giving you a hard time. I can be particular about some things too that others may not think twice about. I wouldn't think that small amount of contact would make a perceptible difference...at least not to my ears.

Marto · #5 01-21-2012, 09:14 PM

I have had this issue with an old Hofner Committee of mine. But in my case the wire from the floating pickup ran underneath the pick guard which pressed the wire against the top. It made a huge difference to the sound.
But in your case the difference, if any, may only be slight as there is not much contact. You can take the pickup off and see if there is any difference in tone and go from there.

AlohaJoe · #6 01-21-2012, 09:37 PM

I had the same issue with a KA floater on an old Triumph when it limited my ability to get the pup a little farther away from the strings. I always thought there should have been a way to bring the wire out of the side facing the tailpiece, but if having it touch the top had an effect on the acoustic tone it was less than I could discern.

WhoisLevang · #7 01-21-2012, 09:45 PM

AlohaJoe said; " I thought they could have figured out a way to bring the wire out of the side facing the tailpiece..."
Yes, it seems like a floating pickup would have the wire out of the way by design. I doubt it's hurting the tone much, but, I would like to know how much. I think I'll consult a luthier at some point. When I have something I feel is worth trying to upload, playing wise, I'll put it up so you can hear the guitar.
Thanks guys!

RuffRider · #8 01-21-2012, 09:51 PM

I have a Peerless Monarch and it was the same way...the little cable coming from the floating pickup was pressing on the top of the guitar right where it comes out of the pickup.
I made a modification which requires taking the pick up off the guitar and then taking the pick up guts out of the metal mounting case, ( something that you may not want to do!)
I modified it in the same manner that the hand wound "Armstrong" Johnny Smith floating pick ups are made. The hand wound Armstrong pick up has a half round notch in the metal case where the wire exits the pick up so that the wire does not go under the pick up but it's coming out of the notch in the casing and is even with the bottom of the metal casing - not under it. So, I used a small file and made a half round notch in my pick up casing.
There's a possibility of damaging the pick up when taking it out of the metal case - so I don't recommend everyone doing it - but if you have know how and guts to do it this procedure solves the problem.
The wires that were soldered onto the volume pot of my Monarch where pressing on the top of the guitar under the pot also...I re-soldered those wires to the side of the volume pot.

WhoisLevang · #9 01-21-2012, 10:31 PM

Figures. This is a Peerless factory guitar. I will take time and assess the options. Same story with the pot wires, but not as much contact or mass as the pickup wire. I've done my share of point to point soldering. ( Craig Anderton's first edition of Electronic Projects for Musicians was mine once upon a time and I still have the octave doubling fuzztone I built around here somewhere. :-) I hate to do anything risky anymore. Must be gettin' old...

Thanks for the heads up!

PTChristopher · #10 01-21-2012, 10:44 PM

Solutions are great, but maybe it is good to find an actual problem too.

In my opinion, it is possible that there is no practical problem. So can you temporarily eliminate the contact and see if you can really hear a difference?

Chris

RuffRider · #11 01-21-2012, 10:57 PM

There's also the option of just getting one of the "Armstrong" hand wound Johnny Smith pick ups. It would probably produce a more desirable tone also.

WhoisLevang · #12 01-21-2012, 11:05 PM

I may be able to lift the shielded cable and tape it to the underside of the pickguard, but as you point out, there may be no problem. I'm just enough of a nit to wonder about it... and ask questions... Acoustically, it's a pretty good tone (my opinion) and amped it's fine. It's just that I was pretty sure a floating pickup should, well, float and wanted confirmation from wiser heads. Thanks!

AlohaJoe · #13 01-22-2012, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoisLevang

...wanted confirmation from wiser heads.

And you're looking here?

oldane · #14 01-22-2012, 05:18 AM

A complete non issue IMHO.

Think about it. When you play, a part of your right forearm is likely resting on the top, and that actually dampens the top vibrations. The back - which to a big extent delivers the low frequencies - is dampened by your belly. If you should worry about a wire touching the top, you should also practice classical guitar technique, so your right forearm doesn't touch the top, and you should hold the guitar out from your body - else it wuldn't make sense. Of course that is very little ergonomical.

Ask yourself: Does the guitar sound good? Yes? Fine, then everything is OK. As Duke Ellington said: "If it sounds right, it is right."

DaveS · #15 01-22-2012, 08:42 AM

I strongly suspect it is a non-issue as regards any effect on tone (& certainly couldn't prove it one way or the other), but it definitely is an issue re buzz. I've tracked a couple of annoying intermitant buzzes to a pickup lead lightly contacting the edge of the f-hole causing mechanical buzz on certain notes.

Jazz_175 · #16 01-22-2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuffRider

There's also the option of just getting one of the "Armstrong" hand wound Johnny Smith pick ups. It would probably produce a more desirable tone also.

Are you referring to the pickups you can find here?
Kent Armstrong® Jazz Guitar Pickups

Patrick2 · #17 01-22-2012, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveS

I strongly suspect it is a non-issue as regards any effect on tone (& certainly couldn't prove it one way or the other), but it definitely is an issue re buzz. I've tracked a couple of annoying intermitant buzzes to a pickup lead lightly contacting the edge of the f-hole causing mechanical buzz on certain notes.

This

RuffRider · #18 01-22-2012, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz_175

Are you referring to the pickups you can find here?
Kent Armstrong® Jazz Guitar Pickups

Yes you can get the pick ups at WD Music (Hand Wound or factory made.)
I purchased mine from archtop.com: #1 Online Marketplace for Vintage Jazz Guitars

But - I spoke to a salesman at WD Music and what I found out is that the hand wound models that WD has are not the same models that archtop.com has.

RuffRider · #19 01-22-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveS

I strongly suspect it is a non-issue as regards any effect on tone (& certainly couldn't prove it one way or the other), but it definitely is an issue re buzz. I've tracked a couple of annoying intermitant buzzes to a pickup lead lightly contacting the edge of the f-hole causing mechanical buzz on certain notes.

This buzzing issue is what alerted me to the wire/body contact on my guitar. My Monarch had intense buzzing issues. So, I went on a mission to get rid of all the loud buzzing that sounded out particularly when chords were played.

AlohaJoe · #20 01-22-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldane

When you play, a part of your right forearm is likely resting on the top, and that actually dampens the top vibrations. The back - which to a big extent delivers the low frequencies - is dampened by your belly. If you should worry about a wire touching the top, you should also practice classical guitar technique, so your right forearm doesn't touch the top, and you should hold the guitar out from your body - else it wuldn't make sense.

I agree that the wire in the OPs question isn't going to make much (if any) difference to the acoustic properties of his guitar. But if your right forearm is resting on the top and the guitar is resting on your belly, it will. If you play a plywood electric it's probably no big deal, but the acoustic tone (esp on carved archtops, flat-tops and Selmer/Macaferri guitars) is severely dampened when your belly is pressed against the back, and resting your arm on the soundboard of any acoustic guitar will kill your tone.

Others might not care, but for me it sounds better when I move the guitar a bit farther out on the leg, leaned back and pointed slightly upward so the back is unencumbered and try not to touch the top. With electrics it's probably no big deal, but I still prefer hollow-body electrics to solid because of the added acoustic properties.

ps, Archtop.com sells KA pups that are handmade by Kent, WD sells KA licensed imports, thus the difference in price and quality.

Jazz_175 · #21 01-22-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlohaJoe

ps, Archtop.com sells KA pups that are handmade by Kent, WD sells KA licensed imports, thus the difference in price and quality.

I have now found an old e-mail that I received from wdmusic.co.uk in 2007
when I asked information on the KA pickups for jazz guitars.
They replied that
"They are made in Korea, using the exact same methods and materials that Kent uses when he makes a pickup"

AlohaJoe · #22 01-22-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz_175

I have now found an old e-mail that I received from wdmusic.co.uk in 2007
when I asked information on the KA pickups for jazz guitars.
They replied that
"They are made in Korea, using the exact same methods and materials that Kent uses when he makes a pickup"

I can only speak from my own experience. I've had both and there was a big enough difference (same guitar/amp etc) to make the handwounds worth the price difference, at least to my ears. Others may have a different result.

oldane · #23 01-23-2012, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlohaJoe

.... the acoustic tone (esp on carved archtops, flat-tops and Selmer/Macaferri guitars) is severely dampened when your belly is pressed against the back, and resting your arm on the soundboard of any acoustic guitar will kill your tone.

Others might not care, but for me it sounds better when I move the guitar a bit farther out on the leg, leaned back and pointed slightly upward so the back is unencumbered and try not to touch the top.

So do I. When playing acoustic rhythm, I even hold the guitar much like Freddie Green, which also makes the strumming easier and makes my right arm position less cramped. Unfortunately I am so fat

that I can't totally keep my belly from touching the back in any position.

I do in fact find that dampening the back "steals" more from the sound than dampening a peripheral part of the top.

va3ux · #24 01-23-2012, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoisLevang

...the idea that the shielded insulated wire could have the slightest deadening effect bugs me.
What say?

Total non-issue, as others have said. You're imagining a 'problem' that doesn't exist.

PTChristopher · #25 01-23-2012, 06:42 AM

[oldane] >>> I do in fact find that dampening the back "steals" more from the sound than dampening a peripheral part of the top.

Analysis of the patterns and amplitude of vibration certainly support this observation in my opinion. Soooooo, I am going to have one fewer donut that I would normally have this morning. You know, to cut down on my front dampening a guitar's back.