Clean Boost vs Amp's Volume

**jorgemg1984** · 01-20-2012, 12:00 PM

Hi!

As have been talked in the past sometimes when you crank the amp's volume you loose a lot of the original sweetness. This has been true with several amps I have played - when you crank them they became boomy and piercing.

In my small pedalboard I have a Boss EQ that I also use as a clean boost. With the Boss boost I can sort of get my soud but only louder - which seems impossible with an amp's volume control.

Anyone has similar experiences? I have benn thinking about getting a BBE Boosta Grande for my large pedalboard in order to avoid messing with the amp's volume.

Thanks!

PS - I know Abercrombie does this but to avoid hiss.

**jorgemg1984** · 01-20-2012, 12:03 PM

Forgot to say I like to use volume knob at 70% and tone kob between 30% and 90% deppending on the venue.

**Jim Soloway** · 01-20-2012, 12:51 PM

What you're doing is hitting the preamp harder with a hotter signal rather than increasing the amplifier output level on a lower input signal. With some amps, especially what are thought of as traditional solid state jazz amps, I think making the preamp work harder like that definitely does produces a warmer, "sweeter" signal. It also makes the amp more touch sensitive. The down side is that because it is pushing the preamp harder, it only works if the preamp has some significant headroom to begin with.

**bluemood** · 01-20-2012, 12:59 PM

I also like to use a boost when I use my Tele I can keep my volume knob rolled back less noise and a fatter tone at lower volume.
I have a clean boost Fulltone Fat boost version 1 ,but I like to use a Ibanez TS9DX in the turbo mode adds bass to the tone I only do this with tube amp.

**jorgemg1984** · 01-20-2012, 05:03 PM

Thanks for both your replies.

I think I have enough headroom in my amps to use the clean boost... I don't know if anyone experienced this but it has happened to me some times. You plug your guitar, set the amp, everything is great. You start playing with the band and you notice you need a little more volume. You turn the amp from 3 to 4 and sudenly the sound is completely different - usually more trebly and boomy and you need to reajust everything (sometimes impossible).

When I use the GE-7 clesan boost I get my original sound only louder. Maybe volume knobs on amps are supposed to be neutral but that has not been my experience... Anyone has had the same experience? Is there a better solution than the clean boost?

**Help!I'maRock!** · 01-20-2012, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Thanks for both your replies.

I think I have enough headroom in my amps to use the clean boost... I don't know if anyone experienced this but it has happened to me some times. You plug your guitar, set the amp, everything is great. You start playing with the band and you notice you need a little more volume. You turn the amp from 3 to 4 and sudenly the sound is completely different - usually more trebly and boomy and you need to reajust everything (sometimes impossible).

When I use the GE-7 clesan boost I get my original sound only louder. Maybe volume knobs on amps are supposed to be neutral but that has not been my experience... Anyone has had the same experience? Is there a better solution than the clean boost?

volume changes everything. not only that, but playing with a band completely changes the frequencies you have to work with. you really have to adjust as you go and learn how your rig reacts in different situations. take it from somebody who has bought too much gear along the way.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 01-20-2012, 05:30 PM

I think this is at least partly psycho-acoustic. When you turn down a stereo the bass seems to disappear, and when you turn it up there's too much bass! Blame our ears.

**jorgemg1984** · 01-20-2012, 06:30 PM

With my rig I can sort of manage it - my Fender M80 has too much bass with the EV but I am changing the circuit to tame that. It's terrible when I have to play with other amps at reharsals... But I know that's a good point - knowing how to manage this situatios it's great. And yes, acoustics do play a role - when we increase volume we hear frequencies we weren't hearing before.

But still I relly think some amp's volume controls are not neutral. It's not only the need to adjust the sound to band situations (which is true) - if I am playing by myself that also happens when I increase volume, it becames too boomy and piercing. Part of it is the acoustic reason but I also think some amps don't have a neutral volume control, it changes not only volume but the voicing of the amp or at least that is my perception.

Maybe I am saying somthing really stupid :/ But gear can be helpful, EQ pedals helped me so much dialing my tone... I was hoping a clean boost could help me with this volume issue.

**Pierrot** · 01-21-2012, 03:41 AM

Volume has a direct relation with sound colour perception. See Fletcher and Munson isophonic curves...

The "solution" would be to realize the soundcheck at the same volume you are going to play, and try to get the tone you want at this stage...

**Snap** · 01-21-2012, 06:07 AM

If anyone wants an amplified natural sound on-stage better stay away from guitar/instrument amps, even those intended for acoustic guitars. Use good Hi-Fi power amps and speakers instead. If you use more than one source, like a mic and a pickup or a pair of pickups, use a small good mixer as a front end. No instrument amp will beat this setup.

**Snap** · 01-21-2012, 08:20 AM

Of course, magnetic pickups are not the best choice for this approach. Use microphones and/or contact pickups better. Magnetics will sound "too electric".

**jorgemg1984** · 01-21-2012, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Pierrot

Volume has a direct relation with sound colour perception. See Fletcher and Munson isophonic curves...

The "solution" would be to realize the soundcheck at the same volume you are going to play, and try to get the tone you want at this stage...

I will study those curves (one has already been recommended in the past).

Yes that is of course the ideal situation but sometimes I need to run an amp on 5 or 6 in order to be heard in the mix (when not using any pedal) and the amp does not sound sweet at this volumes (but it does at 2 or 3). When I have the chance of using the clean boost I can use the amp's at 2 or 3 and be heard in the band and have a nicer tone.

Anyone knows why the clean boost seems to work best than the volume control?

**jorgemg1984** · 01-21-2012, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Snap

If anyone wants an amplified natural sound on-stage better stay away from guitar/instrument amps, even those intended for acoustic guitars. Use good Hi-Fi power amps and speakers instead. If you use more than one source, like a mic and a pickup or a pair of pickups, use a small good mixer as a front end. No instrument amp will beat this setup.

Hi snap, that's actually not my intention. I like guitars, magnetic pickups and amps - I see the archtop as an electric guitar. I just want to get the sweet low-volume sound louder...

**Doc Music** · 01-21-2012, 10:14 AM

Are you talking about tube break up or overloading your speakers? You will get a different sound with the guitar volume down and the amp volume up vs the guitar volume up and the amp volume a little lower.

**Insufferable_Rhythm** · 01-21-2012, 10:24 AM

Referencing your Jazzmaster Ultralight (and many solid-state Fender amplifiers), Fender have designed the circuit such that, as you increase the volume, bass frequencies are reduced (more accurately, highs are boosted). Just as your perception has informed you.

You can change this behaviour by increasing the value of C33 in your Jazzmaster Ultralight.

**jorgemg1984** · 01-21-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Doc Music

Are you talking about tube break up or overloading your speakers? You will get a different sound with the guitar volume down and the amp volume up vs the guitar volume up and the amp volume a little lower.

I just want the sweet low volume sound louder - no tube breakup (I am actually just using solid state amps at this point).

"You will get a different sound with the guitar volume down and the amp volume up vs the guitar volume up and the amp volume a little lower."

This exactly what I meaning! For example I know my guitar volume knob is not neutral - it takes some bite of the sound, that's why I like it on 7 / 8 and not on 10. Do you have any idea if this is also true for guitar amps volume control? (I assume it's not equal for all of them, just a generic question).

Thanks!

**jorgemg1984** · 01-21-2012, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Insufferable_Rhythm

Referencing your Jazzmaster Ultralight (and many solid-state Fender amplifiers), Fender have designed the circuit such that, as you increase the volume, bass frequencies are reduced (more accurately, highs are boosted). Just as your perception has informed you.

You can change this behaviour by increasing the value of C33 in your Jazzmaster Ultralight.

This is very true with the jazzmaster ultralight. But with some amps I have to play at my conservatory I notioce the oppposite - they became boomy and not trebly when I raise the volume. I will PM you about the jmul idea!

**Insufferable_Rhythm** · 01-21-2012, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

This exactly what I meaning! For example I know my guitar volume knob is not neutral - it takes some bite of the sound, that's why I like it on 7 / 8 and not on 10. Do you have any idea if this is also true for guitar amps volume control? (I assume it's not equal for all of them, just a generic question).

From another thread:

Your guitar's volume potentiometer (its resistance) forms a low-pass filter with the capacitance of your cable and the input of your amplifier. Assuming capacitance is fixed, a low-pass filter will progressively roll-off high frequencies as resistance is increased. Increasing the resistance in this filter is exactly the effect of turning down your volume.

This same principle applies to the volume control of most guitar amplifiers, being a practical concern assuming there is some significant capacitance following it.