Distortion / overdrive for jazz ???

[aniss1001]

Just wondering if you guys use distortion / overdrive for jazz? And if yes then which?

Back in the days (before I went all jazzy) I used a RAT and loved it and I'm thing about getting one of these RAT clones: http://sengerefectos.com.ar/?page_id=155

Besides I know tha Scofield uses a RAT most of the time to "fatten up" his sound...

[Help!I'maRock!]

while i wouldn't quite call myself a jazz guitarist just yet, one of the best dirt pedals i've come across is the MI Audio Tube Zone. most of the clips you'll find are likely from basement metalheads. but the lower half of the gain knob is excellent for low gain tones, and the EQ section has an exceptional range.

[mr. beaumont]

Why not?

The only reason I don't do it much is that I have encountered few distortion boxes that allow me to retain definition in chords, which are a big part of my lead guitar style.

[perfischer]

I use a RAT2 w/distortion turned almost all the way down.

[Marcis]

I use Hughes&Kettner Tube factor with may semi-hollow and it works very well - soun is fat and big

[Headshot]

I use a Visual Sounds Double Trouble. I have one side set up for tradtional jazzy sounds with the tone cut, etc., and the other side is set up with a little drive, kind of like about 25% on a Blues Driver. Play either side by itself, or combine the 2.....what is fun is experimenting to get YOUR sound.

[GodinFan]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Why not?

The only reason I don't do it much is that I have encountered few distortion boxes that allow me to retain definition in chords, which are a big part of my lead guitar style.

Try a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive. You can mix clean signal back into the output. It's possible to play 13th chords with distortion AND definition.

[zigzag]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Why not?

The only reason I don't do it much is that I have encountered few distortion boxes that allow me to retain definition in chords, which are a big part of my lead guitar style.

Different pickups might help.

[jorgemg1984]

I tried and searched for a lot of good ODs / distortions for jazz some months ago. Ended up by choosing the Rat and a Sparkle Drive (tube screamer with clean blend).

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

When it comes to distortion with well-articulated chords, I like the Roland guitar synthesizer sound, but that really is very "vintage fusion".

[bluemood]

I have a Ibanez Turbo Tube Screamer TS9DX That I like to use with my modified Fender HRDeluxe .
I use it on the turbo mode and it's nice and warm, fat ,adds sustain to the notes(Tele) Setting level 9 oclock,drive 11 oclock and tone 12 oclock.
I have yet to find a pedal that I like with soild state amps .
Very good note clearity for rhythm .
I just leave it on,it's great with the clean channel and to boost the drive channel.
I only use as an od with very like hair semi clean.

[Atticus]

Since I already use a Tech 21 Blonde pedal, I just turn up the drive a notch or two. That thing can get to tones that would make Leo Fender and Dick Dale run for cover, so it's more than enough for jazz.

[aniss1001]

Thanks for the input. Interesting.

Personally I've only ever liked 2 dist/od pedals (I'm not much of a gear freak so I don't distinguish between dist and od actually haha): The RAT and the Tube Screamer (TS). Since I like the RAT best I never owned a TS. Never saw the point in having several. I like it simple.

However it does sound interesting the Sparkle Drive you mentioned. But it's probably expensive here (a RAT goes for $us 200 as I recall), which is why I have to look into clones. Besides I heard that the newer RATs don't sound as good as the older ones, thus often the clones are better since they are based on the older designs. So it's kind of a no brainer.. 1/4 of the price plus better sound

[JonnyPac]

I've been digging Kurt Rosenwinkel's distortion... Is that a RAT or something else? I also hear the Tube Screamer is a good one. I'm interested in trying a non-clean sound.

I have a Boss ME-50 with lots of different distortions. Is there one on there that you know is similar to a RAT or Tube Screamer? It even has "RAT" as one of it's tones, but I don't think it sounds quite right.

How about pickup tone choices? I like mine rolled off- is that what these guys are doing? Distortion with low gain and the tone rolled off?

Thanks-

[jorgemg1984]

Kurt uses a vintage RAT as Scofield. A Tube Screamer and a RAT are very different pedals, one is an OD the other a distortion - besides other differences (but I like both). The Sparkle Drive is really great for anyone looking for a Tube Screamer pedal for jazz.

[aniss1001]

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

I have a Boss ME-50 with lots of different distortions. Is there one on there that you know is similar to a RAT or Tube Screamer? It even has "RAT" as one of it's tones, but I don't think it sounds quite right.

Here is my experience with dist. / od:

Almost all pedals sound bad or worse. Don't know why but for some reason the simple analogue circuits of the RAT and the TS just sound much nicer than any others.

ALL dists. / ods in (digital) multieffects sound AWFUL. For some reason it just can't be emulated. It HAS to be analogue and it seems the simpler the better.

The dist. / od of some (tube) amps can sound really nice, BUT only if you're playing a FULL volume. It just doesn't work with lower volumes. I believe this is why they started making pedals in the 1st place: to emulate that sound at lower volumes.

You can get some PREAMPS (tube or SS) that sound great too, but they are more expensive and don't necesarily sound better than a RAT / TS.

Anyway that is my opinion

[krusty]

Wampler Super Ecstasy. It allows me to dial in just the right amount of 'hair' when I use my Polytone.

[Insufferable_Rhythm]

A Klon Centaur circuit with silicon diodes does very well for the modern jazz distortion/overdrive sound, I think. To me, it sounds even more Rosenwinkel than a RAT alone does.

"Klones" aren't too expensive.

[aniss1001]

Scofield talking about the RAT here ...

"But the Rat has been with me all the time. It saves my ass every time I have to play through a shitty amp. When I put my Rat on it helps me out. That happens a lot with playing rental gear. For me, a Fender Twin is the hardest amp to get a sound out of – I don’t know, I guess that’s just a personal thing. They sound great for a certain type of music, but not with my guitar and my stuff. But, I’ve gotten through many nights where that was the only amp available, because of the Rat – because I can come closer to getting my sound with the Rat (through that amp). If I didn’t have the Rat, I wouldn’t have been able to play."

I also think it is quite funny that he considers a Fender Twin to be the worst possible sounding amp

[jorgemg1984]

The hate on the Twins is not that rare - read Steve Cardena's stuff. There's other funny story about Scofield and Rats, he said he used to have a Tube Screamer but got stolen and that's the only reason he tried the RAT...

Frisell and Monder are other notorious users of the RAT for jazz. Kreisberg uses the Sparkle Drive.

[JonnyPac]

Thanks for the info. I'll look into those.

[SamBooka]

I have an early 90s RAT that I never use for jazz (but I am not a SCO fan so...)

What is nice about the Tube screamer TS9 is that it cuts a little bass response.. not great when you are rockin on a tele bridge pickup but it can take some of the woofiness out of a hollowbody with a HB in the neck.

For the record I use a GFS Green Meanie (TS clone) which is well built and very affordable.. If you insist on Ibanez (for whatever reason) TS5 Soundtanks are the same circuit as the TS9 is a very cheap enclosure.. but they go for about 1/3 the price..

[aniss1001]

Hmmm... This Sparkle drive mixed signals concept gave me an idea... With a small (2-band) mixer one could do the same with a RAT (or any other pedal / effect). Could be interesting to hear how it would sound with a RAT-distorted signal and a clean one mixed together

[Insufferable_Rhythm]

Isn't that the basis for Kurt Rosenwinkel's distorted tone?

[aniss1001]

Originally Posted by Insufferable_Rhythm

Isn't that the basis for Kurt Rosenwinkel's distorted tone?

Hmm... WHAT is the basis of Kurts distorted tone??

[aniss1001]

Originally Posted by SamBooka

but I am not a SCO fan so...

WHAT?! That's blasphemy!! Get out of my thread!!

Haha just kidding

[oldane]

I use a Tech 21 Sansamp ParaDriver DI in front of my AI amp head, and it can deliver distortion ad nauseam like the "Blonde" pedal from Tech 21 mentioned above. Not that I use it though. I like clean tones, but I have the drive on the Paradriver set to around 10 o'clock, so the sound fattens up just a tiny bit without being percieved as break up. I don't want "fur" on my tone but "a tightly cut velvet" so to speak. IMHO those analog Tech 21 preamp pedals are great, not only for adding distortion but also for shaping the tone. My ParaDriver DI is a keeper. One little detail I love about it, is that it - as opposed to the other Tech 21 pedals - can be Phantom Powered, and the AI amp provides that, so I can omit the annoying 9V power supply with its flimsy cable.

[jorgemg1984]

Kurt does that with all his pedals - he uses a Lehle mixer to blend dry and clean.

[D'Aquisto Fan]

FWIW, I get good results with a Zendrive SE.

[aniss1001]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Kurt does that with all his pedals - he uses a Lehle mixer to blend dry and clean.

Ah ok!

Hmmm... can anyone recommend some examples of Kurts distorted sound? I just recently started listening to him (he's great BTW) and in the ones I have found he sounds rather sterile and artificial, kind of a guitar SYNTH sound.