Distortion / overdrive for jazz ??? - Page 2

jorgemg1984 · #31 01-21-2012, 07:14 AM

Kurt Rosenwinkel Group - View From Moscow - 2006 - YouTube

He doesn't use it much more stronger than that usually. Kurt is just awesome IMO - I don't find hist tone sterile or artificial at all. Synth like sometimes. Maybe you heard "Under it All" or "Enemies of Energy"?

aniss1001 · #32 01-21-2012, 07:29 AM

Don't recall which tunes I heard but I was reffering to THAT sound (in the clip you posted). To me saying a guitar sounds synth-like automatically implies sterile and artificial.

Anyhoo as I just wrote in another thread it's funny how different folks perceive and describe sound / tone...

EDIT: And yes kurt IS an awesome player even though "In the land of jazz guitar SCOFIELD is king" hehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi0Qi67rsL0

jorgemg1984 · #33 01-21-2012, 12:47 PM

Yes - we all have different concepts of tone. I actually love Kurt's sound and I think he manages to have a very processed guitar sound but still reatain his original tone... I saw him live with big band and it was AWESOME. His sound was really out of this world... But I get your point!

Man, I love Scofield. His "Live" recording is very rare, maybe it was his first record but is SO GOOD. Also love "Hand Jive", "Saudades" and "A moment's peace". But to me KR is a step above Scofield... Maybe he is the emperor!

aniss1001 · #34 01-21-2012, 05:39 PM

Yes "Live" from 1977 was indeed his 1st as a band leader. Personally I have and love most his albums.

Not so much his 80s synthesizer funk (you may have guessed that I dislike synth sounds in general) but I do like the tune Blue matter for instance (1st tune I heard with Sco). Here is a great live version from Denmark (obviously I fastforward through the synth solo

)

Nor do I like"piety street" (gospel? seriously?).

I particularly like his work from "Time on my hands" and later. In general jazzers are just a lot better when they reach a certain age in my opinion. My 2nd favorite jazz musician (after Sco) is Chet Baker. Oddly enough because the two have little in common. Perhaps I would say that both are very laid back, have an exceptional sense of frasing/timing, are very unique and expressive and whatnot. But I guess anyone would say similar stuff about the players they like.

Anyhoo I don't really like the early Chet but his 70s and 80s period just blows me away. I actually had to struggle holding the tears back the 1st time I heard him (funny valentine) even though it was my rock / blues / funk period before I could really appreciate jazz.

The Sco albums "Time on my hands", "Meant to be" and "Hand Jive" are the three albums that draw me into jazz. The reason I play jazz now and started playing again after some 13 years of break. And if I could achieve a sound close to "Time.." and "Meant.." for a "clean" sound and "Hand.." for a distorted sound I would have covered pretty much all my needs for different sounds.

Do you know the album "Works for me"? Another great one. At 1st I didn't like his sound on that album. I think he's playing with the bridge pickup all the time and it as a VERY wooden sound to it. But this sound grew on me too.

Who is your absolute favorite? Kurt? Metheny? Hall?

Anyhoo Sco is king and Kurt, Metheny, Hall, etc. are merely barons, dukes, counts etc.

End of discussion hahaha

bluemood · #35 01-21-2012, 05:57 PM

I saw Pat Martino and John sco do the song sunny and liked Pats solo and tone better in that song .
It's was just Pat guitar cable amp Roland JC120 John had pedal board two amps I think at least one was a vox AC30.Just IMO

jorgemg1984 · #36 01-21-2012, 07:28 PM

Chet Baker is probably the most emotional jazz player ever - voice or trumpet. His intuition is awesome - I transcribed all the "Chet Baker Sings" solos. I don't know anyone who doesn't like his music - even people who hate jazz.

I know most of the records you mentioned - but the ones I really went deep were the ones I mentioned. I intend to listen to some of his records more deeply in the future...

I don't have an absolute favorite... My favorites are Wes, Hall, Scofield, Metheny, Rosenwinkel, Kreisberg, Bernstein, Anthony Wilson, Hekselman and Lage Lund. I have been specially fascinated with the last one these days

starjag · #37 01-22-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Chet Baker is probably the most emotional jazz player ever - voice or trumpet. His intuition is awesome - I transcribed all the "Chet Baker Sings" solos. I don't know anyone who doesn't like his music - even people who hate jazz.

Are these transcriptions published somewhere? Chet is great indeed!

jorgemg1984 · #38 01-22-2012, 08:25 AM

I know I transcribed the solos myself - I am not sure if I wrote them down or not, it was some years ago... I can search on my pc and send them to you if you want but I would advise you to transcribe them yoursel, Chet is easy to hear.

Back then I was quite fresh at jazz so I am planning on transcribing and writing all of them again (and also the ones on "It Could Happen to You").

starjag · #39 01-22-2012, 08:44 AM

^^^ PM sent

Soco · #40 01-22-2012, 03:05 PM

I use the Fulltone fulldrive 2 mosfet.

aniss1001 · #41 01-26-2012, 02:07 PM

A technical question... If I wanted to mix a clean signal that of a RAT how would I do that?

Apart from a mixer I would need some kind of a device that splits the signal in two to begin with. I'll call it a "splitter". I imagine something like this:

Code:

  --------
 | GUITAR |
  --------
     |
     |
  --------    
 |SPLITTER|
  --------
   |    |  
   |    |
  ---   |
 |RAT|  |
  ---   |
   |    |
   |    |
  --------
 | MIXER  |
  --------
     |
     |
   -----
  | AMP |
   -----

But I don't know. And I have no idea what such a device is called and what it would cost.

Help!I'maRock! · #42 01-26-2012, 02:31 PM

you want an effects loop pedal with a blend. something like a BOSS LS-2 or the T1M mini blender.

aniss1001 · #43 01-26-2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Help!I'maRock!

you want an effects loop pedal with a blend. something like a BOSS LS-2 or the T1M mini blender.

Hmmm... I don't think that is it. I wanna be able to blend a RAT (or any pedal(s) I choose) with a clean signal. Not sure how to explain it better sorry... Hmmm... And I'm not sure what the devices you mentioned actually do?!

jorgemg1984 · #44 01-26-2012, 02:48 PM

Lehle Parallel or Xotic X-Blender. (or a custom pedal with that stock à la Sparkle Drive)

aniss1001 · #45 01-26-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Lehle Parallel or Xotic X-Blender. (or a custom pedal with that stock à la Sparkle Drive)

OK! That is the expensive solution. I'm thinking about a cheaper hack solution using a cheap minimalistic mixer, as I tried to describe with my homemade diagram

. What I don't know is what this "splitter" device is called in the real world nor how complicated (=expensive) such a device would be?! (Sorry if it's a stupid question)

Unless off course my idea for some reason isn't viable at all?!

Help!I'maRock! · #46 01-26-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aniss1001

Hmmm... I don't think that is it. I wanna be able to blend a RAT (or any pedal(s) I choose) with a clean signal. Not sure how to explain it better sorry... Hmmm... And I'm not sure what the devices you mentioned actually do?!

those pedals should do what you want. this guy asked exactly the same question as you did:is there a blend pedal that will mix a straight signal with a pedal in a fx loop

jorgemg1984 · #47 01-26-2012, 03:41 PM

If you are ordering a custom RAT (as I recall) just build the circuit with a blend knob stock - I think this would be the cheapest solution.

aniss1001 · #48 01-26-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

If you are ordering a custom RAT (as I recall) just build the circuit with a blend knob stock - I think this would be the cheapest solution.

Hehe nope... I'm buying a cheap local clone (it's handmade by some electronics/guitar-nerd in Buenos Aires and his stuff has a good reputation).

I wouldn't mind modyfying the pedal myself, but I'm not much of an electronics expert. I would have little idea where to start. How to split the signal in two and later mix them together again?

Currently I can't even figure out what a device that splits the signal in two is called and how simple/compilicated such a thing would be.

jorgemg1984 · #49 01-26-2012, 04:04 PM

If he builds pedals maybe he is able to do that? It should pretty easy for a pedal builder to do that - he can take a look to the Sparkle Drive schematic (available online) to see what they did there.

A lot of pedals are using this technique these days, it shold be pretty easy.

if you want to do it you yourself there are some good online foruns on pedals DIY, I think people there will be better prepared to help you.

aniss1001 · #50 01-26-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Help!I'maRock!

those pedals should do what you want. this guy asked exactly the same question as you did:is there a blend pedal that will mix a straight signal with a pedal in a fx loop

Ok! Maybe you're right I just don't know the lingo. Never heard the term fx loop. But I suppose that if I did it like that then I would place the RAT in a loop with the other pedal. It just looks somewhat complicated for my need. I basically just need a volume knob for the clean and the dirty signal respectively.

Anyway thanks a lot

aniss1001 · #51 01-26-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

If he builds pedals maybe he is able to do that? It should pretty easy for a pedal builder to do that - he can take a look to the Sparkle Drive schematic (available online) to see what they did there.

A lot of pedals are using this technique these days, it shold be pretty easy.

if you want to do it you yourself there are some good online foruns on pedals DIY, I think people there will be better prepared to help you.

Well I also though about getting a custom job like that. Ask him to add a "clean volume" knob on his RAT (and perhaps rename it "the JazzRat"

), but I don't think it will be a cheap solution anymore then. I'll ask him when he gets back from vacation.

If it's really simple I guess I could but I'd much prefer a solution that doesn't involver a hot soldering iron. Which is why I'm trying to find out what this "splitter" device is and whether my original idea is viable at all.

Anyway you think that the pedal like the one Help!I'maRock! mentioned would do the trick too?

jorgemg1984 · #52 01-26-2012, 04:19 PM

I have no idea - I have the Lehle for my delay and reverb and love it! Never tried others... do you think it's important for the RAT? I know a lot of guys who use it with reverb and delay but with the RAT I am only aware of Rosenwinkel, most guys use it 100% wet.

aniss1001 · #53 01-26-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

I have no idea - I have the Lehle for my delay and reverb and love it! Never tried others... do you think it's important for the RAT? I know a lot of guys who use it with reverb and delay but with the RAT I am only aware of Rosenwinkel, most guys use it 100% wet.

Important? I don't know since I never tried it

It was actually this thread that gave me the idea. If it works with this Tube screamer based Sparkle drive then I'd like to hear it with a RAT (since I prefer a RAT over a Tube screamer).

I liked the idea that some mentioned that you get more clarity in your (extended) chords etc. with a mixed rather than a wet distortion. And generally I imagine it would sound nice for my playing style. Mainly I wanna use the RAT for lower gains rather than distortion (Sco style). So I thought I'd try it..

Insufferable_Rhythm · #54 01-26-2012, 04:51 PM

[[...Barge Concepts VB-Jr...]]

Larry M · #55 01-30-2012, 07:33 PM

Probably a dumb question, but...how does distortion/overdrive work with a full hollow body jazz box? I'd like to know before I spend money on pedals (being asked to play modern music at church). I am in the dark about such things since I haven't used a pedal since I was a teen in the 60's ( a fuzz box and a Vox wah)! Any thoughts/advice will be much appreciated. TIA

jorgemg1984 · #56 01-30-2012, 07:37 PM

Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio au Duc des Lombards - YouTube

They work

Larry M · #57 01-30-2012, 07:47 PM

Thanks!

jorgemg1984 · #58 01-30-2012, 07:48 PM

Oh but you can run into feedback issues (even more than usual)

Melodic Dreamer · #59 03-12-2012, 12:15 PM

Timmy, Analogman Maxon OD9, Jetter Gainstage Red.

bluemood · #60 03-12-2012, 01:38 PM

I'm back to the Fulltone fulldrive II It has a clean boost,cut mids,and mid boost.
Sounds great with my new little ZT lunchbox.