Got a new used mim tele!

[Evan]

Thanks For all the help and advice. I was really leaning towards the j mascis jazzmaster, but didn't want to wait a month and couldn't play before ordering.

Luckily, I found a used MIM tele for 350.00 yesterday. It's probably a special or a standard, I don't know which yet. Unfortunately, It didnt come with a case.

I think it was a pretty good deal. So far, everything seems to be in good shape. Just three teeny-tiny dings in the body, which are barely noticable. Maple neck with low frets and low action , tobacco sunburst color. Im assuming that it's all stock. I cleaned a thin coat of grime off of the neck and body and it looks much better now.

I have some questions about care and maintenance.

I don't have a case or a bag. Will humidity, or lack of be a problem for the neck? Should I get a case?

It has .10 round wound strings. The guy at the guitar store said I would probably have to have the neck adjusted if I want to switch to .11 flat wounds. It looks like the nut groove for low E is just bug enough for the .10s. (same is true for the bridge).

I want to open her up. The neck pup sat a bit slanted at the store and I asked the guy to take a look. He straightened it. The height adjust screws don't seem to affect the neck pup though and I wanted to find out why.

I peeked under the vol/tone panel already. To get under the pick guard I need to take the strings off. Is there anything I should be aware of before doing this? I was warned not to take all the strings off of my classical guitar when I bought it last year but I don't know if that's a concern for a hard body.

Thanks again!

[kris]

New strings and new set up....:-)

[PTChristopher]

It is hard to do much damage to a tele, so have at it with your investigations.

>>>Will humidity, or lack of be a problem for the neck?

No. The neck will shrink in dry conditions and expand in wet conditions. So the only practical issue is exposed fret ends in extreme dry conditions. If that happens just get the fret ends cleaned up when the the guitar is at its driest/shrunk-ed-nest - which lags the dead of winter by about 2 or 3 weeks.

>>> Should I get a case?

Yep. Now if you drop a tele on the sidewalk, mostly you need to check to see if you damaged the sidewalk. Nonetheless, a case gives you easy mobility and a place to store the guitar. The classic rectangular case works, but is pretty bulky.

I like the "Protec Contago" - which sounds like a foot fungus, but is a really useful hybrid case/gigbag. More than enough protection for a Tele in my opinion, and very easy to carry. It has a stiff outer rim and side panels, so it is far better than a soft bag.

I wish the nylon accessory pouches were tougher material, but at half the cost of a Monocase M80, and very low bulk, it is what I ended up with for my Tele.

>>> probably have to have the neck adjusted if I want to switch to .11 flat wounds.

Yes. I run T-I JS-111 on mine and the sound is fantastic. I would go to the JS-112, but I am getting a good woody and brass saddle sound right now, so I'll leave it at that.

You would do well to get all the basic setup items checked when switching to other strings - in my opinion.

>>> To get under the pick guard I need to take the strings off.

Actually, you can pull the pickguard on a Tele with the strings on, but it takes some care. You may prefer to just take the strings off which makes the whole thing an easy operation.

I tend to rub my finger tips on the pickguard, so I add copper foil under the finger-rub area and ground this to the switchplate. It gets rid of any static charge during the extremely dry winter.

>>> I was warned not to take all the strings off of my classical guitar when I bought it last year but I don't know if that's a concern for a hard body.

Ya know, when concepts about a guitar are translated into firm "don't do this" commandments, it can get a little odd.

It is arguably best to change strings on a delicate guitar one at a time, and this is a possible source of the advice to not take the string off the classical.

Your Tele is a battleaxe and can be strung and unstrung with no trouble.

While you are at it: The dry part of the year is also a time when the body shrinks a little and the neck bolts should be checked. If you want to get a little compulsive, then tighten the lower bolts (toward the bridge) with the strings on, and the upper bolts with the strings off. This is arguably excessive care, but it does put the bolts under ideal conditions for tightening. And if you are taking the strings off anyway, may as well take every micro advantage there is.

Congrats on the new Tele - its a classic, and a jazz classic, for a reason.

[ruiner54]

You are absolutely right about the strings...I had 12 flatwounds put on my MIM tele and the nut had to be changed, but man was it ever worth it. My MIM tele is my favourite of all of the solid bodies I have owned to date.

[Evan]

Originally Posted by ruiner54

You are absolutely right about the strings...I had 12 flatwounds put on my MIM tele and the nut had to be changed, but man was it ever worth it. My MIM tele is my favourite of all of the solid bodies I have owned to date.

Can I remove the nut when the strings are off? If so, it might be easier to file the low E grove to fit the 12s.

Is that mental, or not so risky?

[Evan]

@PTChristopher Thanks for the great advice.

I should have mentioned that I'll probably never take my tele out of the house. Not sure, but it sounds like that was your reason for suggesting the case.

Re: switching strings and basic setup... Are we talking about adjusting the truss and re-tweaking for intonation? I'm more comfortable with the latter. For he truss, can you guys recommend a good, reliable video tutorial from someone who knows what they are talking about?

[PTChristopher]

Evan,

>>> Can I remove the nut when the strings are off?

Yes. But you can also loosen the strings, tape them off to the side, and then remove the nut.

But the big deal in removing a nut is to not chip out the finish. Any finish on the nut ends or forming a fillet between the nut and the maple FB or headstock needs to be carefully cut/scored so the nut can come out cleanly.

AND,...

The vast majority of nuts are too high, so the chances are that you will not be removing the nut, but rather having the slots adjusted.

>>> might be easier to file the low E grove to fit the 12s.

Getting the nut right is 1 through 99 in the top 100 steps to a good setup.

A Tele/Strat nut is a littlew tricky because it is both shallow (not a long string groove) and the optimum angle for each slot is unique (and slightly critical especially on the strings will a shallow break angle.

This is something you can do yourself, but it is best if you have considerable understanding ove everything your nut is doing (so to speak),and have done this quite a few times so that you can feel how much material you are taking away. Also, it is FAR better to have either a bought or self-made set of proprietary tools for the job.

Please do not cut "V" shaped grooves in the nut.

All in my opinion/experience.

[PTChristopher]

>>> Are we talking about adjusting the truss and re-tweaking for intonation?

Setup Basics (many other small tweaks you may also want):

1 through 99: The nut height, and string slot shape.

100: Rough bridge height.

101: Truss rod adjustment.

102: Fine bridge height.

103: Bridge compensation.

104: Look for dopey problems and fix 'em.

It is possible/common for a guitar store setup to skip items 1 through 99. The impact on playability is amazing in many cases.

>>> For he truss, can you guys recommend a good, reliable video tutorial from someone who knows what they are talking about?

Check Frank Ford's frets.com, I have yet to find him to have ever written an an ill-advised thing about guitars. I am not sure if he ever wrote about truss rods.

There are many OK tutorials and MANY web-gasbag twaddle "tutorials" in my opinion (and some of the ill-advised advice is on manufacturer and supplier sites, in my opinion). If you find a tutorial you want to run with, I am happy to give my one-person's opinion about it if you post a link. Other good opinions may not agree with mine.

Breaking a truss rod is not a very common thing - but it is way-ugly. (On a Tele it is cheaper to replace the neck than to replace the rod.)

Misunderstanding what the rod does (set neck relief and compensate for string pull on the neck), and what it does not do (everything else) is pretty common and can lead to excessive force being used.

[Retroman1969]

It has been pretty much covered, but I'll throw in some reinforcing statements:

You might want to get a gig-bag for convenience and basic scratch protection, otherwise, you can use your Tele to win a bar brawl then crawl up onstage and start playing it without re-tuning it!

Humidity and temp changes don't affect a Tele nearly as much as a hollowbody, so it's barely a concern.

Putting on heavier flatwounds will likely lead to needing to tighten the truss rod just a bit. Check out video instructions or text instructions on the net. It's super easy to check neck bow and adjust.

A bit of filing on the nut will probably be needed too. This is a little trickier to do right without screwing it up. Best done with proper nut files and caution.

To remove the pick guard assembly, it's much easier to do it with the strings out of the way.
Removing the strings one by one is a pain and sometimes results in a broken string or two if you're going to reuse them.
Cool thing about a Tele.... What I always did was slacken the strings a little with a few turns of the tuner knobs, clamp a capo tightly on the first or second fret (to keep the strings from unwinding off of the tuner posts) then took out the 4 neck screws and gently pulled off the neck.
Now you can swing the strings, neck and all, out of the way and get to the PG assembly easily. Just screw the neck back down, remove the capo, and re-tune when your done.
If you don't want to mess with that, then just wait for your next string change to crack open the pick guard.

Hope this stuff helps.

Congrats on your new baby. Teles can make really decent jazz guitars so I think you'll enjoy it.

[Evan]

@PTChristopher,

I definitely want to avoid the twaddle. I'll check frets.com. by any chance, are the 100 things you check for set up detailed there too?

@retroman,

I think I'll wait until time to change strings to faff around with the nut. I'll post some pics here later, but it looks like the low E slot is already just barely deep enough. All other strings fit in and are level with or beneath the top surface of the nut. Low E sits high in the slot. I'm guessing that about 20-25% of the string is above the surface. It seems like the bottom edge of the string would be the most important edge to line up... While making sure that the string doesn't unseat during play. It seems solidly in place, despite sticking up a bit at the moment.

Do heavy strings tend to unseat (jump out) of the nut more easily?

[Retroman1969]

I would think that it would be really hard, in fact next to impossible to pop a string out of the nut slot unintentionally, unless it's not seated in there very well, and even then... I've never had it happen on any guitar with any gauge string. The thicker the string, the more it will be exposed above the nut (on the wound strings).
And you're right, the bottom edge is the important part to watch for proper measurements.

[Evan]

Originally Posted by Retroman1969

To remove the pick guard assembly, it's much easier to do it with the strings out of the way...
What I always did was slacken the strings a little with a few turns of the tuner knobs, clamp a capo tightly on the first or second fret (to keep the strings from unwinding off of the tuner posts) then took out the 4 neck screws and gently pulled off the neck.
Now you can swing the strings, neck and all, out of the way and get to the PG assembly easily. Just screw the neck back down, remove the capo, and re-tune when your done.

I've seen that trick used before and I really like that idea. The main thing that worries me about taking the neck off would be that I might end up weakening/routing out the screw holes.

What I mean is that I worry that the threads within the screw hole would start to strip out. But I'm imagining that the neck is bolted on by wood screws into wood. That can't be the case now that I think of it. Please say the screws fasten into metal bolts in the body.

[PTChristopher]

>>> Please say the screws fasten into metal bolts in the body.

OK, "the screws fasten into metal bolts in the body".

But they really are fastened with threads into wood.

You can indeed strip them. But:

1. It takes some talent for disaster.

2. It is a pretty easy fix.

[Evan]

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

But they really are fastened with threads into wood.

Hmmmm. Bad design.

[PTChristopher]

>>> Hmmmm. Bad design.

In my opinion: Yes and No.

First off, it is a design from the origins of Fender Guitars and the sensibilities in play at the time.

Second, we are screwing two blocks of wood together here. They swell and shrink quite a bit and a machine thread can be very unforgiving when it is under no tension, which can happen to the lower (toward the bridge) screws.

I have worked on Taylor guitars (bolt-on neck with machine thread inserts) where the forward bolt (toward the top) was rattling around, held in place only by the paper label.

*******************
EDIT: Taylor guitars have a superb neck joint design. Further the company is fantastic to both their customers and luthiers. The bolt-on design works superbly, and the machine thread is definitely the way to go on their design. My point is just that a machine thread is not a magic problem solver on a tele neck and that both types of threads have their maintenance needs.

And if a luthier needs to remove the label on a Taylor to get at the bolts, Taylor will supply a new label, with the period-correct graphics.
****************

Anyway, Tele threads into maple are fairly robust. If you want, it is an easy job to put in machine thread inserts (they have a coarse wood thread on the exterior) and go to machine screws.

All in my opinion. You have a great guitar that is a time proven robust design. It is also very mod[ification] friendly, so do as you see fit.

Chris

[Evan]

Fair enough. Time tested is certainly worth something, and your point about the wood screws allowing for breathing room is well taken. I don't want to change the design and I didn't mean to derail the thread. I just wanted to make sure I don't wreck things while poking around.

Thanks.

[PTChristopher]

>>> I didn't mean to derail the thread.

Huh?

Evan, I though the idea of this thread was for us to give opinions and experience to possibly help you get your guitar going as you see fit. Pretty hard for you to derail I would think.

I'm just laying out my views on guitars with some bias toward clarity over amusement or decorum.

Feel free to make whatever use you want of the comments, and disagree/ignore as you see fit. It's all good if it helps you to sort out the axe to your standards.

Chris

[jazzbow]

So the JM JM lost out then? Ha ha.

Check this P/U configuration for a Tele.

YouTube Video

One day I'll have me one of those.....

[Evan]

Originally Posted by jazzbow

So the JM JM lost out then?.

Yeah, but not for lack of interest. I just couldn't pass up such a good deal. And since I didn't blow $1000.00 smackers, I may still be able to justify the jazz in a few months

I still want to see those pics of your mod.

[Evan]

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

>>> I didn't mean to derail the thread.

Huh?

Evan, I though the idea of this thread was for us to give opinions and experience to possibly help you get your guitar going as you see fit. Pretty hard for you to derail I would think.

Sorry. I just misread. I do appreciate everyone's help and interest. New here though, and didn't want my slag on the design to offend.

[Evan]

Back to the nut and changing to flat wounds... I was told at the guitar shop that flatwounds started at .11s so that's what I've been thinking all day.

How much of this conversation goes out the window if I switch to .10 flats instead?

And would low tension flats also help the transition? ... If such a thing exists. String suggestions anyone?

[Retroman1969]

You can get flats in .10s certainly, and in fact that's what I had on my Strat when I had one.
I wouldn't want to go that small these days, but it would likey fit comfortably in the nut slots as is. Tension wouldn't be as big an issue either.
I'd still check for neck bow because it probably needs adjustment anyway. Most do.

[Evan]

I put .10 d'addario chrome flatwounds on and tuned down to D. They sound great!

I'm not sure if I will tune up to E right away because it sounds so good as-is.

I dont know if i should monkey with the tuning Since I'm still learning the notes on the fretboard. I've learned probably about 25% of the fretboard (concentrating on natural notes for now) and had begun learning things in open E tuning. I havent had trouble finding notes since tuning down a step... But I don't know if the compensation/shift will end up confusing me in the long run.

[PTChristopher]

Wow Evan,

.010 to around .046 tuned down a step is a VERY low tension setup.

This has some pretty extreme implications for intonation and bridge compensation as you play up the FB.

You will need a great deal of compensation, and it will be somewhat unstable as even slight changes in fretting pressure will have a serious impact on the notes.

In my opinion only:

Tune to standard pitch, especially if learning some basics.

If you later want to drop a half-step to be more singer friendly that's done by some players/bands. But I'd start bog standard. .010's are quite light strngs and full pitch is still quite easy to play.

Again, all in my opinion - subject to considerable error and misunderstanding of your situation.

[Evan]

Thanks Chris. I had initially thought that I shouldn't immediately tune to E just in case the change in tension was too abrupt. I liked the sound, but wasnt aware of it being so low tension and hadn't bothereed checking the intonation yet. Point taken though. I'll tune up to E today.