Getting a Jazz Sound from a Strat?

[kobrian]

I need some advice from the pros. I am just starting out learning jazz. I have a Strat and I love it. Between my Strat and my Zoom 505 Effects Pedal how can I get a nice warm jazz sound? Thanks!

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by kobrian

I need some advice from the pros. I am just starting out learning jazz. I have a Strat and I love it. Between my Strat and my Zoom 505 Effects Pedal how can I get a nice warm jazz sound? Thanks!

assuming that you're looking for a traditional, clean warm jazz tone, it's all about EQ

use the neck pickup, and roll down the tone on the guitar a bit. if using an amp, EQ mid heavy, bass to taste, and lose a little treble. are you playing direct thru the zoom? i assume the it has some sort of EQ section?

a lot of folks run into the problem of cranking the bass all the way and losing all definition to the sound. if you listen to the classic players, there's still plenty of crisp attack. don't lose that.

the other thing to remember is there is no one correct jazz tone--even if we're talking traditional clean tone here-- kenny burrell sounds diffrent than grant green, who sounds different than wes, who sounds different than jim hall, who sounds different than tal farlow.

[mmukav]

Great question! You need to think "clean". You can try just the neck pickup, but I use both the neck and middle. Play with your tone controls, but I put them both about 5-6. Just remember to keep the amp on a clean setting, no overdrive. I don't know much about the Zoom 505 but you can try different effects. Depends on what kind of jazz you're playing. Traditional jazz guitar is just clean, that's it. No effects. Fusion of course is quite different, and if that's what you're after than you can use lots of effects, and run your amp dirty. Hope this helps!

[kobrian]

Yes, I'm looking for a classic clean tone. The Zoom 505 does have a EQ feature that I'll play around with.

I like the traditional jazz of Charlie Christian and Eddie Lang, but I also like Joe Pass and Mike Stern. (I also like all good guitar music, from Bluegrass to Black Sabbath, Chet Atkins to The Ventures).

As for guitars, I love the sound of a big jazz box (and they are beautiful to look at!) but I love the size, shape, and playability of a Fender. I love my Strat and would possibly only trade it for a Jazzmaster (a guitar, despite its name, that isn't used by any Jazz Masters that I know of!). Thanks for the help.

[Peter C]

Getting the EQ right, as stated, is very important, as well as adjusting the guitar volume so as not to overdrive the preamp.

I'm sort of in this position myself until the right Telecaster finds its way into my hands. That could take a while yet. My Strat used to be set up for Rock with a plain 3rd string etc. and, as it was not getting played, one day I put some flatwounds on it, just to see. I liked the feel, though I'm still experimenting with the sound: the pickups are designed for a plain 3rd string and there is some drop in volume on that string with this set I'm using (D'Addario Chromes), though the difference was even more noticeable in the case of a round wound third I tried once.

I was going to say you should keep away from a plain 3rd for the Jazz sound and feel (I personally need to), but just remembered reading that Ed Bickert uses one. Shucks, he's my man as far as tone goes (and everything else, for that matter), so what do I know?

Oh yeah, and blocking the trem may help.

[whippersnapper]

I'd highly recommend a heavyish gauge of string, especially for a Strat. At least 11's...

[kobrian]

I'm using 9s now so I'll move up to 10s until I get used to them and then onto 11s. My trem currently has three springs so I'll add two more. Thanks for the advice. Also, I did finally find someone who actually used a Fender Jazzmaster for Jazz! Joe Pass recorded and album called Sounds of Synanon using a Jazzmaster. (Then again, he was in drug rehab and it was the only guitar they had in the place!). Still, I'm trying to track down the album--I'd love to hear what it sounds like.

[whippersnapper]

There's a clip of him on youtube playing a Jaguar... just type in 'Joe Pass Jaguar' and it should bring it up.

[hot ford coupe]

At one point, I put a set of 13 gauge flatwounds on a Strat until I saw it bend the neck and it couldn't be adjusted anymore. While they were on, the Strat sounded great. If you switch it to only the neck pickup, play around with the tone control on the guitar and mess around with the midrange on the amp, you get a really good jazz tone just like Bickert gets on that Tele. The Humbucker helps also. I put the same 13 gauge strings on a Les Paul Custom 1954 reissue with the Alnico pup in the neck position. You should hear the sound I got out of that. It was deep sweet and mellow.

[mmukav]

Even moving up to .11's will make a big difference. I put D'Daddario XL .11's on my Gibson SG and it has a very smooth, warm sound when EQ'd properly. Good luck!

[Peter C]

I also use 13 gauge flats on my Heritage LP style solid body and like 'em a lot. I find that the tension from 12's on the longer scale Strat sort of balances things out. The neck should accommodate 13's, though, as they were pretty much the norm when it was invented!
If, by the way, I can get near enough to the Tele-Jazz sound on my Strat by experimentation and (some) modding, I'll be happy enough as I prefer its body contour to a Tele's. I have my doubts.

[bojan]

Kobrian,
I am not a pro but,... you may find this useful:
- the sound you get is, by all means, something which is gear related ... strings, amps, the very instrument;
- the tone you get is almost entirely dependent on your playing technique,... your habits, your muscular memory banks, etc.
By the by, my only electric guitar is strung with .11 gauge roundwounds, complemented with a rather thick (.54) flatwound 6th string ... you may try going the Johnny Smith route.

[heavyblues]

Besides what everyone is saying about strings and what not, you can also really get a sweet jazz tone by throwing a Seymour Duncan Little 59 'humbucker' in the neck. I really swear by it if you are using something single coiled size. Not only is it a humbucker technically, it just has this super buttery edge that you really have to hear to believe. It is unlike anything I have heard on a strat, and you don't have to rely solely on thick strings and rolling off treble to get the sound. Highly recommended.

Swapping the neck to a warmoth neck really helps to. I got a wenge neck and brazilian rosewood fingerboard from them for around $350, but boy does it sweeten the tone over the standard maple neck.

[bluemood]

when I want a jazz tone out my strato I put my switch on the neck and middle pickups roll the tone down to 3 the volume to around 7 and make sure my fulltone fat boost is on and there it is...my string are gibson pure nickel RI 10's I have tried 11's and 12's and IMO 10's sound and plays best ... I don't use my strat exclusively for jazz, but if I did I would put D' Addario chromes 10's to 48 flat wound switch the 10 for an 11 on the high E string also make sure that I have the right pickups on there...Amp EQ is also very important.

[Drifter]

I've just watched the documentary 'Red, White & Blues' from the series 'Martin Scorsese presents The Blues'. It contains a short passage where Jeff Beck plays a solo on 'Gee baby ain't I good to you' on a Strat. You have to see this if you're after what kind of Jazz tone you can get out of a Strat. Absolutely stunning! Just don't compare it to an Archtop.

[gravyTrain]

Today i was playing my strat, trying to mimic the sound Ed Bickert gets on 'Easy Living'. Put the selector btwn neck and middle pups, and it sounded pretty convincing.

[heavyblues]

if you want to hear the seymour duncan little 59 in the neck, you can check out some of my clips

www.myspace.com/jeromejacket

i use it on anything with guitar that sounds kinda jazzy or bluesy, but not on the 'rock' tracks. I just tested my guitar against several $400 Ibanez archtops, and the little 59 honestly sounds better....but then again, the Ibanez is $400, and my warmoth neck alone was $400 so go figure... but I still recommend the little 59 pickup for the neck position...I honestly can't find a single flaw in the sound through my Cube 60.

[geozx12r]

have you guys every used or using and guitar eq pedal to fine tune your sound and if so what unit is best thanks geo

[blkjazz]

Strat jazz tone................

YouTube - Jimmy Smith - The Sermon (1964)

[takefive]

I'm a Strat guy and I'm big into getting the right sound. For jazz I use the neck pickup with the tone turned down pretty low. For strings I use fairly heavy bottoms (.46) up to light tops (.09). I'm playing a Squire now and it sound decent, I played six of them at the store when I bought it just to get one with the right feel and sound. It's a little heavier than the others.

[Squint]

D'addario ECG 23 Flatwound 10's and don't forget to have your amp phased!

[Meggy]

Originally Posted by heavyblues

Besides what everyone is saying about strings and what not, you can also really get a sweet jazz tone by throwing a Seymour Duncan Little 59 'humbucker' in the neck. I really swear by it if you are using something single coiled size. Not only is it a humbucker technically, it just has this super buttery edge that you really have to hear to believe. It is unlike anything I have heard on a strat, and you don't have to rely solely on thick strings and rolling off treble to get the sound. Highly recommended.

Some far out sounds on your myspace page there HB! In a similar idea, I put a Lace Sensor Blue pickup in the neck position on my strat-oid guitar. This also gives a great fat PAF like tone IMO. What I'm finding now is that the combination of the PAF ish sounding neck and the more typical strat type pickup in the middle position is also a great sound for jazz playing. I can use neck pickup alone for a thick soloing tone, and then adding the middle pickup kind of lightens things and adds a nice edge/definition which is good for chordal work and comping. I would love to be able to do a back to back test with both the Lace Blue, and the Little 59 - if I ever have another Strat to "jazzify" I might get the Little 59 for that one.

[heavyblues]

Thanks Meggy. Oh and as a note, I used that strat and little 59 on "nice work if you can get it" and "Sonoma demo"...so you can see if you like the tone. On dreamscapes I used an Ibanez AF95. I like to jam on the strat and ibanez equally for fun to hear the difference in tone.

[lkmuller]

I just swapped out the Kinmans I had on my EJ Strat with SD Hot Rails for the bridge and middle, and an SD Cool Rail for the neck. Totally loving the sound of these humbuckers designed for Strats.

[heavyblues]

Originally Posted by lkmuller

I just swapped out the Kinmans I had on my EJ Strat with SD Hot Rails for the bridge and middle, and an SD Cool Rail for the neck. Totally loving the sound of these humbuckers designed for Strats.

They are nice aren't they? I have a Cool Rails as well, I put it in the middle. I like the idea of being able to switch from an SD minihumbucker in the neck to a single coil in the bridge instantly. That way I get every sound I want with one guitar pretty much. I've also noticed that it sounds really fat and thick with 11's on, which is nice because I can still do bends and get that thicker string tone without moving to 12's and up. I love that strat so much I named her "Lydia" after the 4th mode of the major scale hehe.

[bob32069]

Heavy-
Really nice stuff on your myspace page. Especially dig Sonoma. What was the rest of the setup you used to record that (amp, effects, recording gear, etc)? The strat sounds great on that piece.

[heavyblues]

Thanks Bob.

Here's gear I use.

1) Cube 60 (direct line out to my EMU 1820 audio interface...no microphone used on any of those tracks)
2) Electro Harmonix Holy Grail Plus (I love this reverb so much and another reverb I love is a software plugin called Breverb which is my favorite software reverb due to its transparancy)
3) I use an FMR RNC compressor, but not on any of those tracks you have heard except for Rustic Ijam. I bought it for the exact reason that those tracks you hear need some transparent compression on the guitars. I HIGHLY recommend the FMR RNC. They are about $175 on eBay and they compete with compressors way higher in price. I would personally take it over a $500+ compressor

software:
1) ableton live 7.0...i use the delays on here, and sometimes the saturator plugin for drums to make them a bit more aggressive.
2) breverb on the newer songs
3) ezdrummer (all the drums you hear are not real drums, they are software)
4) Band in a box (export midi drums to ableton to trigger ezdrummer)
5) sonnox oxford inflator (to increase volume and punch, my second favorite plugin after Breverb...these are my two favorites)
6) CV Piano....all the piano you hear is from CVpiano which is a free piano program. Considering its free and how great it sounds, i recommend that too
7) NI Kontakt for Bass acoustic bass samples...I got a $5 CD of acoustic bass samples from eBay and triggered them with MIDI.


thats it basically...any questions feel free to ask. I'm a n00b when it comes to actual musicianship, but I have some experience with recording, MIDI, and effects since I used to mess with electronic music back in high school.

[Meggy]

Originally Posted by heavyblues

Thanks Meggy. Oh and as a note, I used that strat and little 59 on "nice work if you can get it" and "Sonoma demo"...so you can see if you like the tone. On dreamscapes I used an Ibanez AF95. I like to jam on the strat and ibanez equally for fun to hear the difference in tone.

Cheers HB, I'll have another listen to those tracks bearing in mind what you say.

[bebop kid]

little help fellow jazz guitarist... i want to sound like george benson / kenny burrell / ronny jordan (tonewise). i use an Ibanez AF75 w/ semi-flatwound strings (.11) staight to the amp. do i need to use flatwounds? and do i need to use effect pedal? an equalizer or something? and i play in different bars w/ various amps so how can i dial-in the same tone settings every night? coz i cant always bring my amp to the gig...tnx!

[blkjazz]

Originally Posted by bebop kid

little help fellow jazz guitarist... i want to sound like george benson / kenny burrell / ronny jordan (tonewise). i use an Ibanez AF75 w/ semi-flatwound strings (.11) staight to the amp. do i need to use flatwounds? and do i need to use effect pedal? an equalizer or something? and i play in different bars w/ various amps so how can i dial-in the same tone settings every night? coz i cant always bring my amp to the gig...tnx!

The tone is, as I'm sure you have heard, mostly in your fingers. That said, the amp used is important. Burrell in years past tended to play twin reverbs. In my opinion the '65 Reissue twin reverb is the best option. Flatwounds help but are not required in my opinion.

Of course, for your situation, given the weight, etc., that is not an option. The alternative I found was to used a deluxe reverb reissue. There are also several small solid state amps (jazzkat, polytone, etc) that will get you where you want to go. For consistency, I think the "use whatever amp they have" approach will never get you there. Just my opinion. Your milage may vary of course.